SAAB 9-3 vs Honda Civic. Which one?

zidanee

Hi, I am in desperate need of help! I cannot choose between those 2 cars: Saab 9-3 1.9TiD Vector Sport Anniversary Edition (2007 - 37k on the clock) and Honda Civic ES 2.2 i-CTDi (2009 - 16k miles). Saab has everything in it - SatNav, leather sport seats, parking assistance, more power, but more miles and poor reviews (I am specifically worried about the expensive problems with the engine). Honda is a good car, but the interior and specs are more basic, the drive is stiffer, more outside noise and less powerful engine (although probably more economical). The price difference is negligible - Saab is £400 more expansive. Both cars have some warranty - Saab has 1 year dealership warranty and Honda 1.5 years of manufacturer's warranty.

I think I like Saab more and I enjoyed the test drive more but I understand that Civic is more practical as it's a hatchback plus a newer car therefore less problems. The reviews and complains about the Saab's engine are very worrying..

Which one would you take?

benham3160

I won't touch Saabs, either to drive or work on them....... Awful things made out of ancient Vauxhall bits, mixed in with Saabs own brand of "highly strung" engines. Parts are incredibly expensive, and they're not very nice to work on.

Honda...... I don't work on many of them, only for servicing......

Regards,
Andy

ventureuk

SAAB has just topped the list of most reliable cars in Germany since 2007. The list is their equivalent of the JD Power survey and covers cars as their mileages increase, SAAB comes 1st, 2nd and 4th in a combination of reliability tests up to 60000 miles. Above Honda and many other cars which have a perceived level of reliability.

The results were as a result of two tests, one by DEKRA and another by TUV. They are published by ADAC-Automarxx, which is effectively the German Automobile Association.

The SAAB 1.9 diesel features in Vauxhall, Fiats and Cadillacs, like may modern diesels it is complex to achieve low emissions and so has its fair share of problems. If you Google a make of car followed by diesel reliabilty the web is littered with owners of every make who have had problems with diesels and so have an axe to grind.

If you like the SAAB then save some money and buy it in petrol, it will have few reliability problems, SAAB have been producing Turbo petrol engines for 30yrs and they run forever with a once yearly change of fully synthentic oil.

After having diesel cars for years I switched to a 9-3 petrol estate two years ago, it has been faultless and get 35mpg. Because it was petrol it cost £2000 less than the diesel but I'd have to do starship mileage to make that back if I'd have gone with the oil burner.

Look for a 1.8t Vector Sport with full leather and forget the diesel. You've got to drive one at night and use the 'Night Panel' function to realise how much thought has been put into these cars.

I guess you can tell I am a SAAB convert, I am and have just bought a brand new convertible...........petrol of course.

benham3160

ventureuk wrote: »

SAAB has just topped the list of most reliable cars in Germany since 2007. The list is their equivalent of the JD Power survey and covers cars as their mileages increase, SAAB comes 1st, 2nd and 4th in a combination of reliability tests up to 60000 miles. Above Honda and many other cars which have a perceived level of reliability.

The SAAB 1.9 diesel features in Vauxhall, Fiats and Cadillacs, like may modern diesels it is complex to achieve low emissions and so has its fair share of problems. If you Google a make of car followed by diesel reliabilty the web is littered with owners of every make who have had problems with diesels and so have an axe to grind.

If you like the SAAB then save some money and buy it in petrol, it will have few reliability problems, SAAB have been producing Turbo petrol engines for 30yrs and they run forever with a once yearly change of fully synthentic oil.

After having diesel cars for years I switched to a 9-3 petrol estate two years ago, it has been faultless and get 35mpg. Because it was petrol it cost £2000 less than the diesel but I'd have to do starship mileage to make that back if I'd have gone with the oil burner.

Look for a 1.8t Vector Sport with full leather and forget the diesel. You've got to drive one at night and use the 'Night Panel' function to realise how much thought has been put into these cars.

I guess you can tell I am a SAAB convert, I am and have just bought a brand new convertible...........petrol of course.

Interesting........

Do you have a ciatation for that, because JD Power and Reliablity Index say something VERY different to the above.

Regards,
Andy

ventureuk

I am going to work on the assumption that there are a limited number of people who can read German so I have an English translation of the press release below.

Saab named top brand for reliability in German AutoMarxX ranking.
The German motorists' organization, ADAC, which is the largest automobile club in Europe, have released their AutoMarxX brand ranking for 2010. With a typical German penchant for meticulous analysis and grading of every aspect of the subject, there was a multitude of criteria taken into account. This year, special focus was put on improving the appraisal criteria for reliability, thanks to the inclusion of the results of the study by DEKRA, the leading German and European car appraisal service provider.

This year's ranking has brought good news for Saab. The Swedish brand was recognized for the efforts made in the last period of the brand's ownership to improve vehicle quality and reliability. In the study, Saab was ranked first for reliability of vehicles up to 50,000 km and second (behind Subaru) in the 50-100,000 km bracket. Although it failed to make the top 5 in the over 100,000 kms category, the good results scored by more recent vehicles gave the brand the top ranking overall.

Saab owes this good result to a large extent to the refreshed Saab 9-3, which got an internal overhaul for 2007 and a new body for 2008, as well as the new XWD system from Haldex. The rest of the Saabs sold in the period appraised were Saabs 9-5, refreshed in 2005, but their share in overall Saab sales have markedly declined in recent years.

The Saab 9-3 uses GM's Epsilon platform of the previous generation, shared with the 2004 and 2008 Chevrolet Malibu, Pontiac G6, Saturn Aura and Opel Vectra C. It has to be noted though that Saab has thoroughly overhauled the platform for their smaller model and it shares very little with its American and German cousins. The study findings confirm Saab has successfully ironed out many of the issues troubling earlier models, especially with the bespoke fiber-optics-based electronics, although this still remains the Saab's Achilles foot, scoring lower than average reliability.

Another contributing factor is the move by Saab to the new generation of GM's Ecotec-based turbo petroleum engines, in particular the 2.0 LK9 unit. Previous Opel-sourced diesels have also been replaced by the highly appraised Fiat-GM Powertrain common-rail units. On balance though, Saab still remains far behind BMW, Mercedes and Audi in powertrain reliability, and no other brand using the shared diesels (which include Opel, Fiat, Cadillac, Alfa Romeo and Lancia) has scored anywhere near the top of the rankings.

http://media.adac.de/fileadmin/user_upload/pdf/ADAC-AutoMarxX-Dezemberi_2009.pdf

benham3160

ventureuk wrote: »

I am going to work on the assumption that there are a limited number of people who can read German so I have an English translation of the press release below.

Saab named top brand for reliability in German AutoMarxX ranking.
The German motorists' organization, ADAC, which is the largest automobile club in Europe, have released their AutoMarxX brand ranking for 2010. With a typical German penchant for meticulous analysis and grading of every aspect of the subject, there was a multitude of criteria taken into account. This year, special focus was put on improving the appraisal criteria for reliability, thanks to the inclusion of the results of the study by DEKRA, the leading German and European car appraisal service provider.

This year's ranking has brought good news for Saab. The Swedish brand was recognized for the efforts made in the last period of the brand's ownership to improve vehicle quality and reliability. In the study, Saab was ranked first for reliability of vehicles up to 50,000 km and second (behind Subaru) in the 50-100,000 km bracket. Although it failed to make the top 5 in the over 100,000 kms category, the good results scored by more recent vehicles gave the brand the top ranking overall.

Saab owes this good result to a large extent to the refreshed Saab 9-3, which got an internal overhaul for 2007 and a new body for 2008, as well as the new XWD system from Haldex. The rest of the Saabs sold in the period appraised were Saabs 9-5, refreshed in 2005, but their share in overall Saab sales have markedly declined in recent years.

The Saab 9-3 uses GM's Epsilon platform of the previous generation, shared with the 2004 and 2008 Chevrolet Malibu, Pontiac G6, Saturn Aura and Opel Vectra C. It has to be noted though that Saab has thoroughly overhauled the platform for their smaller model and it shares very little with its American and German cousins. The study findings confirm Saab has successfully ironed out many of the issues troubling earlier models, especially with the bespoke fiber-optics-based electronics, although this still remains the Saab's Achilles foot, scoring lower than average reliability.

Another contributing factor is the move by Saab to the new generation of GM's Ecotec-based turbo petroleum engines, in particular the 2.0 LK9 unit. Previous Opel-sourced diesels have also been replaced by the highly appraised Fiat-GM Powertrain common-rail units. On balance though, Saab still remains far behind BMW, Mercedes and Audi in powertrain reliability, and no other brand using the shared diesels (which include Opel, Fiat, Cadillac, Alfa Romeo and Lancia) has scored anywhere near the top of the rankings.

http://media.adac.de/fileadmin/user_upload/pdf/ADAC-AutoMarxX-Dezemberi_2009.pdf

So, explain how that means it's come top since 2007.

Sounds to me like they're suprised it did so well, and still suffers some pretty catasthrophic faults to me.

ADAC listed the Audi A6 as their most reliable car for 2010?

Regards,
Andy

A._Badger

As a Honda owner, I'd just add a word of caution. In my experience, as they get older and start needing parts - especially electrical ones - they can be damned expensive to run. Mine was recently off the road for nearly two weeks due to an electrical fault which my local garage and the main dealer had trouble diagnosing.

Honda, a little like Toyota, VW and Mercedes, seem to be throwing away their hard won reputation for reliability, sad to say.

harveybobbles

Well, the Saab will be a !!!!in nightmare when goes wrong.

Were actually thinking of giving up buying the diesels as they are just THEE worst car out there!
Every one we have we end up doing major stuff to.

DMF, clutches, EGR's, manifolds, fuel rails, amplifiers, turbos etc...

The Civics only seem to suffer with EGR problems and the occasional DMF problem.

Petrol Saab's are totally brilliant, though!

Sssssss

For me head says Civic, heart says Saab. I get the feeling from your post you also like the Saab. At the end of the day go for the car that will make you happy.
Regardless of make if a car is going to go wrong it's going to go wrong.

Inactive

Sssssss wrote: »

Regardless of make if a car is going to go wrong it's going to go wrong.

Less chance of that happening with a Honda tho'.

A._Badger

Inactive wrote: »

Less chance of that happening with a Honda tho'.

Ten years ago, maybe. Some of the threads on Honest John make for sad reading.