No Bldg Regs Completion Certificate - please help!

sam39

I posted the full story over the weekend, but unfortunately haven't had any advice - maybe my story was too long, but I'd really appreciate help here as I havent got a clue what to do next.

We are very close to exchanging on a dormer bungalow which had conversion and extension works sometime around 1997 when the plans were approved. The vendor said that it had all the necessary approvals but I found out on Friday that it doesnt have the completion certificate - basically all it has is the initial planning approval.

We had a structural engineer's report done as it has external cracks and he basically said that these seem to be non-progressive and were caused when a steel beam/RSJ was put between the floors. He said everything shd be ok, but to make sure that our Legal Advisers check that all Building Regs were met.

After reading on internet, I have suggested to my Solicitor that the vendor obtain a regularisation certificate and we'll be happy to complete the sale. My Solicitor is putting this forward, but gives me the impression that I am over reacting here. My concerns are - a. will we have the same problems if we try to sell again in a few years and b. what if we have to claim on buildings insurance for any reason - they would surely say that the policy is not valid due to no Bldg Regs?

Am I over reacting, or should I re-negotiate the purchase price? We are paying £280k.

Thank in advance - I really dont know whether we should be pulling out, but we do really like the house, just want reassurance that the building works are ok.

loulou41

I would insist on a regularisation certificate as you will have problem when selling. I do not think you are over reacting. When I bought last year, sellers could not tell me whether chimney breast was supported. I had to get a builder in to check and as it was not supported and I like the house, I had it done and re-negotiate the price. I would not buy the house without the regularisation certificate but that's my opinion. If sellers do not sort this out now, they will have the same problem in the future with another buyer. Have you asked sellers why they do not have a completion certificate?

sam39

Many thanks for the reply. My Solicitor seems to be making out that it is not such a big issue and that I should be getting a full structural survey rather than a regularisation certificate, but, like the Structrual Engineer has said, I would still be without the certificate which I would rather have for the future.

I have not even met the vendor as he now lives & works abroad, so cannot ask him why it was not done.

I am half expecting him to come back and refuse to get the regularisation certificate. The property is over 200 miles away and we need to move in quickly as OH is starting work there soon, so we've even offered to rent it until this is resolved. Not sure what we'll do if he refused now or whether we'll also consider re-negotiating (havent got a clue how much?).

Bananamana

the main thing is to make sure it is safe- A structural survey and indemnity is the quicker way.

If you are not worried about time then push for the building regs retrospective consent.

loulou41

Do not listen to your solicitor mine thought it was no big deal as well but you have to think of the future when re-selling. I did have a full structural survey and the surveyor just mentioned about building control regarding removal of chimney breast. Obviously sellers were not bothered when they bought but I was not going to take any chance. The house is a period house over 100 yrs old and it is still standing and solicitor & sellers thought I was making a fuss. A wall was knocked down to create a through lounge, we do not know when but surveyor said it is ok and I got builder to check and he said the same thing. Unless I am desperate I would not a house without proper documentation. It will be in the interest of the sellers to sort this out as soon as possible. It is a pity that nobody with more experienced has answered your post, I am only relating to my experience and am quite a novice. I also phoned BC to find out whether there was a application for work to be done in that property & whether it was registered as sellers did not know but they did write to building control and ask about it. Your solicitor is the best person to advise, that's what you pay him for. Insist that you want a regularisation certificate from the seller. The surveyor said the extension is ok, are you prepared to buy the house and then sort the regularisation yourself? Hope this helps.

Catbells

I'm your man (woman actually) on this one!! You can see my current thread entitled FENSA documents or similar which documents the last week's experience I've had with building regs.

I'm in process of selling my house and didn't have building regulations certificate for an extension that was built 18 years ago. Our buyers solicitor was adamant that we have them.
I called the Building Control at the local council, got him over and he had a short list of things required in order to obtain the certificate. In our case there had been frequent visits by the building inspector throughout the building of the extension but for some reason the final sign of hadn't been done. It cost me £800 to have these items addressed but its moved our sale forward and we're about to exchange. This has made it sound much simpler than it has been on account of the buyer's solicitor being VERY meticulous to the point of unreasonableness.

sam39

Catbells wrote: »

I'm your man (woman actually) on this one!! You can see my current thread entitled FENSA documents or similar which documents the last week's experience I've had with building regs.

I'm in process of selling my house and didn't have building regulations certificate for an extension that was built 18 years ago. Our buyers solicitor was adamant that we have them.
I called the Building Control at the local council, got him over and he had a short list of things required in order to obtain the certificate. In our case there had been frequent visits by the building inspector throughout the building of the extension but for some reason the final sign of hadn't been done. It cost me £800 to have these items addressed but its moved our sale forward and we're about to exchange. This has made it sound much simpler than it has been on account of the buyer's solicitor being VERY meticulous to the point of unreasonableness.

Thanks Catbells - I've had a reply from my Solicitor this morning to say that the vendor's Solicitor has approached the council who have indicated that they would not be prepared to go along the 'regularisation certificate' route. However, I then rang the Bld Control Dept who said although they would be prepared to go out, it would involve the vendor uncovering all the work beforehand, and as the work is fully completed, it would mean uncovering the roof, plasterboard, flooring etc. They have said that interim inspections did take place to inspect the footings and the steel beam between the floors and a better beam was inserted than what was required.
I've now gone back to my Structural Engineer to ask for further advice - all I want is something to say that the work was carried out satisfactorily.
Thanks for letting me know your experience - it sounds a lot simpler than my Solicitor/vendor's Solicitor is having me believe.

poppysarah

sam39 wrote: »

My concerns are - a. will we have the same problems if we try to sell again in a few years and b. what if we have to claim on buildings insurance for any reason - they would surely say that the policy is not valid due to no Bldg Regs?

Am I over reacting, or should I re-negotiate the purchase price? We are paying £280k.

Thank in advance - I really dont know whether we should be pulling out, but we do really like the house, just want reassurance that the building works are ok.

Walk away or massively re-negotiate.

Is it def. structurally sound?

Doozergirl

sam39 wrote: »

Thanks Catbells - I've had a reply from my Solicitor this morning to say that the vendor's Solicitor has approached the council who have indicated that they would not be prepared to go along the 'regularisation certificate' route. However, I then rang the Bld Control Dept who said although they would be prepared to go out, it would involve the vendor uncovering all the work beforehand, and as the work is fully completed, it would mean uncovering the roof, plasterboard, flooring etc. They have said that interim inspections did take place to inspect the footings and the steel beam between the floors and a better beam was inserted than what was required.
I've now gone back to my Structural Engineer to ask for further advice - all I want is something to say that the work was carried out satisfactorily.
Thanks for letting me know your experience - it sounds a lot simpler than my Solicitor/vendor's Solicitor is having me believe.

It sounds like the Structural Engineer is saying it's fine but wants to cover his back and Building Control have done inspections to a point - quite a major point IMO if we know that the footings and joists are good.

The issue you have is that whilst getting to grips with the fact that the general standard of the works completed to a point are good (and will probably continue that way) you've scuppered the indemnity route. What you need now is some kind of reassurance from Building Control that they won't be concerned with taking action if they aren't asked to produce a completion certificate (tbf, they haven't been bothered for 13 years!!) Now you've had the conversation, I'd be asking exactly what would have been left to examine - aside from the loft trusses we're starting to talk about things that don't affect the structural integrity of the property and so aren't really important in the grand scheme. ie. are you going to pull out if the loft insulation isn't up to scratch or the window panes don't meet certain standards etc...

I think this has probably gone a bit further than it should and that the structural engineer being happy was enough. What he probably doesn't understand is that a common sense decision had to be made rather than chasing around after a cert for something which is already standing the test of time... Talking to building control is a catch 22. If you don't get the cert, the fact that you've been tlaking means you can't have a valid indemnity certificate...

To try and put things into perspective, it's likely if it's an older property that the house itself when it was built didn't have any kind of building regulation imposed up on it... The 1990s extension on my house has a completion certificate but the house is 200 years old and probably doesn't have very much at all in the way of foundations even!

sam39

Thanks everyone for the replies. Bldg Control have already confirmed by letter that the 'file is now closed and that the local authority has no intention of taking any further action on this matter'.

We feel that we're going to have to make a decision in the next day or so - I've emailed the council back to ask whether the remaining works (as Dozergirl pointed out, they've already inspected the footings & RSJ) would just need looking at to issue a completion certificate. Otherwise, I suppose a full structural engineer's report, rather than one just looking at external cracking, would have to suffice if we proceed with the sale. Basically, my main concern is that the major works are fine.

Alternatively of course, as has been suggested, we could re-negotiate but I havent got a clue by how much? It seems that people have different opinions on this, whether they would be happy to proceed or walk away, so I have to consider this for re-sale.

Many thanks again!

Richard_Webster

Doozergirl's comments are sensible.

As a solicitor I have to be careful I don't tell people everything is wonderful and an indemnity policy will protect them.

Most of the time the reality is that everything is fine and the indemnity policy is unnecessary because it only protects against the very unlikely possibility of enforcement.

Problem is that there is a risk factor here. Some people take a common-sense view and if the work was done say 15 years ago, will reckon that if a problem was going to emerge it would have done so by now. Others are more timorous and ask me to guarantee everything is going to be OK - and I can't do that..

As Doozergirl implies, if the house itself is old there could be lots of things about its original construction which would be woefully substandard in modern terms, yet nobody gets too concerned about that.