No Bldg Regs Completion Certificate - please help!

sam39

Richard

Many thanks for your advice also. I suppose I am being extra cautious here, but I guess that all I want is the reassurance that the works are fine, but consider the fact that if we come to sell again, we will have this problem again.

Further info - the council have now confirmed that they are not willing to issue a regularisation certificate as the case is too old. Suppose my only option now is for a full structural survey. Should I also be renegotiating the price due to lack of building regs documents? If so, how much?

Toff

I am in the property business myself and I have been in the same situation myself, I personally proceeded to purchase the property and it never bothered me. BUT and its a big BUT, I knew I was getting an absolute bargain!!!! (£160,000 for a one bed in London). I have since sold the flat on, again without certificates for £220,000) So dont be hasty, its not a case of just run away. Look at what you are paying, if its going rate then maybe consider walking away, if its your dream home in your dream location and the price is good, then quite frankly all you need to know is if its safe. Its lack of certificate doesnt mean its a death trap, its just a piece of paper. Make sure the place is safe and take it from there. (ps. doesnt the lender or insurance have any issues?)

littledisey

When I started reading the thread and saw you were talking about a regularisation certificate I was pretty sure that was not a feasible option. It involves the BC inspectors have to basically open up the work done to make sure it was done properly. I have not yet found a seller willing to do that, and the local autorities are not keen to do it either

The earlier comments are right, you can take a view that if the works were done a long time ago, if there was a problem it would be evident. Surveyors will always put every caveat they can to make sure they cant be sued.

Indemnity insurance is another option, a policy can be taken out at a one off cost but the policy doesn't cover the work being defective and you deciding you need to put something right, it only covers against the cost of complying with an enforcement order that the council may put on the house if they decided the works were unsafe and a danger.

If the council have already given the letter saying they do not propopse to take any further action, and you can pin the surveyor down to saying that actually, there is no sign of a real problem then it a case of taking a practical view on it.

Indemnity insurance is probably not an option for you now anyway as these policies can't be taken out when an approach has been made to the Council about building regs.

sam39

Thanks, I'm waiting for the Structural Engineer to get back to me to confirm that he's happy going out again to do a full structural survey this time. Think this is our only option as we basically only want to know that the building is safe.

Toff, I would say that we're probably paying the going rate, possibly slightly less as we are in a good position, no chain etc, but only £12k under asking price of £292k (offer accepted within a week of the property going onto the market). Should the lack of building regs documents mean a lower price now?

Catbells

The building inspector told me that certification came in in 1994.

Regarding the visits made to the property when it was being converted/extended. Can you get a hold of the documents related to those visits. Am sure you have been up this path but just thought to mention it. This might reduce the amount of work you have to open up if it comes to that - if some sections were okayed at the time they were built.

sam39

Catbells wrote: »

The building inspector told me that certification came in in 1994.

Regarding the visits made to the property when it was being converted/extended. Can you get a hold of the documents related to those visits. Am sure you have been up this path but just thought to mention it. This might reduce the amount of work you have to open up if it comes to that - if some sections were okayed at the time they were built.

Hi, thanks, but you're right, I've already asked for copies of those notes and I've been told that the inspection notes are not 'open for public inspection and cannot be copied'. They continued to say that 'what normally happens is that we confirm the inspections carried out and that we were satisfied by work at that point'.
I'm hoping now that the Structural Engineer will go back now & do a full survey for me, just to confirm that everything is now fine.

timmyt

sam39 wrote: »

I posted the full story over the weekend, but unfortunately haven't had any advice - maybe my story was too long, but I'd really appreciate help here as I havent got a clue what to do next.

We are very close to exchanging on a dormer bungalow which had conversion and extension works sometime around 1997 when the plans were approved. The vendor said that it had all the necessary approvals but I found out on Friday that it doesnt have the completion certificate - basically all it has is the initial planning approval.

We had a structural engineer's report done as it has external cracks and he basically said that these seem to be non-progressive and were caused when a steel beam/RSJ was put between the floors. He said everything shd be ok, but to make sure that our Legal Advisers check that all Building Regs were met. get his opinion now that you know regs not obtained!

After reading on internet, I oh dear bad mistake as no lawyer likes clients trying to do their job with 'google [wrong] law' have suggested to my Solicitor that the vendor obtain a regularisation certificate and we'll be happy to complete the sale. My Solicitor is putting this forward, but gives me the impression that I am over reacting here. a bit of paper does not make it any more safe. your surveyor is best placed to actually say is there a problem. the COuncil cannot enforce unless danger to health and safety but you are not saying that your surveyor has said that...so what is the problem? My concerns are - a. will we have the same problems what problem is that? if we try to sell again in a few years and b. what if we have to claim on buildings insurance for any reason - they would surely say that the policy is not valid due to no Bldg Regs why would they? what insured risk would you be clainming for that has to do with the property...flood....subsidence...impact....fire.... ?

Am I over reacting, or should I re-negotiate what ! the purchase price? We are paying £280k.

Thank in advance - I really dont know whether we should be pulling out, but we do really like the house, just want reassurance that the building works are ok.

please see in red, before the seller gets tired of you and sells to someone who will enjoy the proeprty

sam39

timmyt

Thank you for your comments, however you will see in my last post that, in repy to your first comment, I am now waiting for advice from the Structural Engineer.
2nd comment - my Solicitor kept telling me that the searches were all fine and that the completion certificate was 'purely academic' at this stage. It was only my perseverence that proved this wrong. I'm glad that I researched this further otherwise we may have exchanged/completed by now. My Solicitor's Secretary asked me to transfer the remaining balance to them last Friday - I told them that I wanted proof of the Bldg Regs before doing so.
If you read back to my original post - the building has cracking, that is the main problem. The surveyor said that they appear to be non-progressive and should cause no further problem on the understanding that Bldg Regs were followed. If cracks were not apparent then I would not be so concerned. Insurance problems - if the building is not structurally sound due to incorrect works/lack of Bldg Regs by the Builder! What if I have to claim in connection with the cracking walls & the Insurance Company find out it does not have Bldg Regs certificate?
Bottom line now - I am awaiting further advice from the Surveyor. This property has had major works - extension and conversion from a bungalow to a 2 storey - I really need to know that this is safe before proceeding. Why is a Building Regs Certificate required by Solicitors during the conveyancing if it isn't important - if this were the case it surely wouldnt be asked for.

Catbells

It seems that you need to get assurances for your own peace of mind given the cracks. However, I would have thought that the council's notes which they can't disclose would have thrown up any major concerns. Would they be able to disclose to you if there were any major concerns at the time. I would have thought if there had been any problems they would at least be able to confirm or deny.

Toff

sam39 wrote: »

Toff, I would say that we're probably paying the going rate, possibly slightly less as we are in a good position, no chain etc, but only £12k under asking price of £292k (offer accepted within a week of the property going onto the market). Should the lack of building regs documents mean a lower price now?

You say going rate, am i to assume its a regular house which if you missed out on you could easily find another just the same and same money? If so then walk away. If however you are fussy and this is the only one that fit the bill then to you personally the house is priceless. I mean this certificate will not really affect your quality of living in the house or affect your enjoyment of the house. And assuming you dont intend to sell anytime soon then there probabaly only a one in a million chance that you will make a loss on this house. So take a deep breath and dont panic and ask yourself, if you walk away, whats your next option?

When it comes to my personal home I am extremely fussy on the type of house, brickwork, even the width of the road and the angle on the roof etc. If I found the one for me and if it was well priced then I would certainly go for it. If however its a house on an estate of 700 identical houses of which there is always a few on the market and always sell at roughly the same price then thats another story.

The above stuff is stuff only you can answer, I dont really know the market anything more than 20 mins outside the M25 so I cant comment. From a property traders view, its bid lower or walk away, but from an end user like you, emotions are priceless.