Landlord defaulted on mortgage

ellisy

Hi,

Today we received a letter addressed to the occupiers stating that claim proceedings had been issued and a hearing for possession will be held on 12th October.

I understand that as a tenant I have no rights as my landlords do not have a buy to let mortgage and I doubt very much if they have asked the mortgage company for permission to rent out. But I am concerned that if I hang around and wait for the outcome of the proceedings that I could be evicted within days. I have a 14 month old baby and can't risk this. So I am planning on trying to find somewhere else to live, but I am concerned about my landlord coming after me for breach of contract (as I am only in month 5 of a 12 month contract).

I have called my landlord but am still waiting for a call back, which I doubt I will get. We have had 2 people come round for valuations, but I cannot imagine who would lend someone close to £700k if they can't already keep up with mortgage payments.

I can't risk being left homeless at short notice, but I fear being sued for breach of contract.

Help please!!

Thanks

Yorkie1

It's an awful dilemma to be in but I think you've summed it up correctly at present.

Have a look at Shelter's website for further information and give them a ring. They're very busy but keep trying.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repossession/repossession_by_a_landlords_lender

SusieT

You really need to attend the hearing so that the mortgage company and the court know that you are renting the house and are aware of the 12 month contract. The landlord may or may not pay up rather than go to court but if it did come to the worst they would have to give you time to find somewhere else.
Hope you can get it sorted out

mostlycheerful

I’m sorry to hear about this.

I don’t see how the landlords can charge you for the whole agreed 12 months if they fail to supply it to you and only supply you with 7 months of it instead. And as the landlords are breaching the agreement I don’t see how you have to adhere to your end of it. I think it would be grossly unfair for you to be asked to pay for something if you’re not going to receive it.

But of course law is sometimes rather odd so perhaps it would be worth consulting a solicitor and or CAB (Citizens Advice Bureau) and or Shelter etc, to try to, hopefully, confirm that you likely have no liability and set your mind at rest. If you’re earning less than about £80 a week or whatever the threshold is these days, then you may be able to get legal aid to consult a solicitor. And some solicitors will give you half an hour for free to assess whether you've got a likely case to proceed with, so this may be sufficient to clarify your position and whether there's anything more that's viable to do.

If they stop the repossession would you want to stay? How settled there are you and how nice and how suitable for you is the property? Or is this uncertainty and worry and stress enough that it’s time to go, whatever happens about the repossession? These are the kind of questions I would be asking myself if I was in your position.

If you decide to go then in your position if the landlords are civilised types of people I’d probably stop paying the rent now and go and find and book a new place as fast as possible. However if they’re rough or assertive or highly strung or unpredictable types and might take action then perhaps it would be better to pay until you’re safely out of the place.

Another idea that might be worth considering is that if you decide to stick it out but are then made homeless due to repossession then, because of baby, you may be a priority to qualify for a council place, if that is what you want. Some council flats are very nice in good areas, of course others are awful in dreadful areas. It depends on what’s available and luck and how many points you are assessed as having. And, according to media reports and what people say, sometimes it’s possible to pull some strings through friends of friends and cherry pick a nice place. But unfortunately also you might just end up in a bed and breakfast place or even a hostel which may be of low quality. But possibly it’s worth looking into as an option as if you’re lucky you might get a nice place and probably cheap as well. And you won’t get mortgage repossession problems again.

“I understand that as a tenant I have no rights as my landlords do not have a buy to let mortgage”

Maybe, but do you know if their mortgage allows renting or if they got permission to rent in which case you may have a proper tenancy? Or do you know for sure that they didn’t get permission? In which case supplying a bogus invalid tenancy agreement may be considered to be a fraud and possibly a criminal matter as well as civil.

Again, a solicitor and CAB and Shelter etc should be able to clarify this and your rights or lack of them so perhaps it would be worth consulting them about this as well.

Whether you would want to then use this or do something about it is another issue so perhaps one of the main questions to consider is what would be the gain to you? What would you be hoping to achieve? If you do or do not have tenant’s rights then, yes, it may make a difference and possibly quite a lot. As a tenant you can’t be evicted anything like as easily as you can if you’re not.

Perhaps another issue to consider is that if you’ve been given a fraudulent tenancy and want some redress then possibly you could sue them for some compensation for stress and worry and nuisance and cost of having to move in a hurry etc. But only if you really want to go head to head with them. That’s quite a serious radical notion so if going down this route then think about the effort and stress and possible repercussions. If you want to look into it then ask a competent solicitor about the likelihood and practicalities.

For claims of up to £5k you can do it yourself on a small claims form over the net for about £40 (last time I looked). Or if you qualify you can get legal aid to use a solicitor, if you want. Or you can use a no win no fee solicitor if you can find a suitable one who’ll take the case. But if you lose and the other side used expensive solicitors then you can end up having to pay their costs of thousands or tens of thousands. If they don’t answer the case you can win by default. So it’s all a bit of a gamble and a minefield and not for the faint hearted. Probably not appropriate in this case. I only mention this as for just a moment while you’re at it you might as well consider the logical extreme of where you might want to go with this and what’s available and what’s possible.

Similarly if you go to the repossession hearing, as suggested by the previous poster, and if you make yourself and your possibly bogus tenancy known to the court and the mortgage company then what would you be hoping achieve by doing this? If it just gives the mortgage company more ammunition against your landlords and or, worst case scenario, also gets your landlords nicked for fraud then that may not do you any good and possibly could even do you some harm. So perhaps decide what you want to achieve and then run it by a competent solicitor who knows about housing and tenancy and repossession matters.

And if you want to do something about it and can be bothered to follow through then perhaps also get a second and even a third opinion and read up case law on the net and educate yourself about the subject as much as you’ve got motivation to do. Law is mostly continuously in flux and different solicitors have different interpretations of what is what. And judges vary from nice and sensible to nasty and stupid. Law in England is a mix of Acts of Parliament and precedents ie individual decisions of cases so it’s complicated and changing all the time. And rather tedious unless you like this kind of thing. To an extent they just make it up as they go along. And sometimes it just depends on which way the wind is blowing.

Hope this helps a bit, good luck.

theartfullodger

I don’t see how the landlords can charge you for the whole agreed 12 months if they fail to supply it to you and only supply you with 7 months of it instead.

They CAN but MAY not.. (cf you CAN drive @ 103mph on M4 but MAY not). Sadly there are crooks & cheats around: As far as I'm concerned we don't want them in our country*.


You MUST MUST MUST turn up in court, make yourself known to the court officials. Be calm, smart, considered but look very worried: If you have small children bring them.. if you can face it, as well as friends who will behave themselves. . Maybe write to the court outlining the case (OUTLINE!! ) and what you want. It may be the mortgage company will consider letting you stay for a bit.

I thought the last Government brought in protection for this...
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/19/contents

As indicated above, contact Shelter: 0808 800 4444 but prepare for a wait (charity, too many demands).

Best wishes, hope it gets sorted..

Lodger

* Country? Well, whichever one you think is yours (UK, GB, Engerland, Scotland, Wales, Ireland... )

clutton_2

mostly cheerful - you have certainly given OP a lot to think about.... but i suspect that a young mum with a new baby will need to focus her efforts on finding a new roof over her head..

the local councill - private sector housing office - will have lists of accredited private landlorsd whose properties are up to scratch... i would get this list asap....

i would DEFinitely go to court... its not intimidating, really its not, just a small room, 3 tables, one for the judge, one for you and a freind, and one for the LL or mortgage company .. the judge does have some discretion as to how much time s/he can give you to stay in the property - but only if he knows you are there and knows your circumstances....

talk of suing a LL who has no money to pay his mortgage is pointless... as he will have no money to pay you...

is yoru deposit in a tenancy deposit scheme ?

theartfullodger

Kinda.. agree with clutton...

the local councill - private sector housing office - will have lists of accredited private landlorsd whose properties are up to scratch... i would get this list asap....

Varies a lot both in what they have & quality.. but contact council: Also you may wish to present yourself to the housing people as "Imminently homeless" (hopefully it won't be that imminent). In such circumstances they have a duty to help & possibly rehouse you, particularly if kids/other issues involved. Might be worth getting on Council/Housing Association waiting list (there is usually a single, combined, list). However with spending cuts etc. councils are (sadly, wrongly, possibly illegally) become very good at wriggling out of these responsibilities..

talk of suing a LL who has no money to pay his mortgage is pointless... as he will have no money to pay

- Probably: However he might simply be having some nervous breakdown or have a cunning plan to squirrel his money away.. - in either case a small-claims court case won't cost a lot of money & if he does have assets/income in the next 6 years you'd have a chance of getting £££ back.. Apart from anything at least he'll know he's being chased.. I know what I'd like to do to him, but this is a family web-site...

Hope it goes well, best wishes & best of luck!

Lodger

MissMoneypenny

clutton wrote: »

talk of suing a LL who has no money to pay his mortgage is pointless... as he will have no money to pay you...

He might have another house, so always worth looking in to.

Ankatden

I would definitely contact Mortgage company as they may decide they would rather you stayed in the house and paid rent to them for rest of tenancy as in a sale the value of the house is likely to be worth more to an investor where there is an existing and cooperative sitting tenant.

teeni

It is always difficult to decide what to do in these cases.

if you leave and the possession order is not granted ( may be suspended) then the landlord is entitled to the remainder of the fixed term rent. He may have the proceedings suspended based on that contract and your early termination will cause a breech of that.

in this situation you would also risk being found intentionally homeless by the local authority as you will have given up property you legally have a right to remain in. this will effect a homless application and any help form a bond scheme that mey be required to access alternative accomodation.

Alternatively if you stay and the possession goes ahead then you would have a claim against the landlord for breech of your quiet enjoyment of the property and breech of contract.

It is better for all concerned and your peace of mind if you can contact the landlord and agree to an agreed termination of the tenancy agreement and a return of the bond to allow you to access alternative private accomodation as soon as possible. Has this been placed in a tds?

It may be worth speaking to the mortgage company as depending on which one it is they may agree to let you remain once the possession order has been granted ( not their decision up to then) but this is unusual as they will want to sell the house and a sitting tenant who would have a fixed term tenancy is not condusive to a good sale price and they have a legal duty to ensure the best price possible is optained..

It is worth going to the hearing and asking the corut if you can be heard the new legislation is not active yet and the judge does not have to allow you to be heard so an agreement with the mortgage company representative for you to speak and to an extended possession order may be the way to go.

Possession order usually 28 days but the court can grant 56 days in certain circumstances and you may be able to pursuade the mortgage company to agree to this in the circumstances and you will have more time to find somewhere else.

good luck

teeni

clutton wrote: »

mostly cheerful - you have certainly given OP a lot to think about.... but i suspect that a young mum with a new baby will need to focus her efforts on finding a new roof over her head..

the local councill - private sector housing office - will have lists of accredited private landlorsd whose properties are up to scratch... i would get this list asap....

i would DEFinitely go to court... its not intimidating, really its not, just a small room, 3 tables, one for the judge, one for you and a freind, and one for the LL or mortgage company .. the judge does have some discretion as to how much time s/he can give you to stay in the property - but only if he knows you are there and knows your circumstances....

talk of suing a LL who has no money to pay his mortgage is pointless... as he will have no money to pay you...

is yoru deposit in a tenancy deposit scheme ?

Hi Clutton, it is worth going to court but must be prepared not to be allowed to be heard. The new legislation is not in force yet adn this tenant unfortunately has no right to be a part of this proceedings in any way. The court may refuse permission to be heard