Church Property

LydiaJ

PasturesNew wrote: »

... shortage of vicar types are there... how do you get to be one then?

As I recall, they get paid a lot - and where I used to live the job seemed to be mostly about riding round the village on your bike, popping in to have tea with locals.

The pay (once you take into account that housing is provided) is about comparable with teachers.

The job is 6 days a week, including most evenings, all Sundays and most Saturdays. It involves all the usual challenges of managing teams of volunteers. Also, on a local level your private life becomes public property - so people feel entitled to disapprove if you send your kids to a school half a mile away instead of the local one, for example, in the way that people in "normal" jobs don't experience.

For the right people, it's a marvellous job and a huge privilege. It is not in any way a job that one would recommend for its pay and conditions, certainly in comparison with other graduate level jobs. (You need a degree in theology or some kind of two year mature student's diploma in theology if you're over 30.)

bluebluecow

The other thing to remeber now adays, is most clergy (not so much inner city ones) is that you will have 9+ churches to look after, so have to fit in at least 3 services on a sunday, plus all the funerals weddings ect ect. My dad is a vicar and works at least 6 days a week 9-9pm, he is also called on his one day off a week. He loves it though.
As the church is cash short, they cant afford to do any referbishments on vicarages at the mo, my dad needs a boiler but thats out of the question.
Also as he is now 62, and due to retire too, he has been told that he may or may not get funding for a reasonable priced house, he has been adviced it may be about £20000, not much to buy a house. Most new vicars are selling their houses or renting them out so thay have either the money or the property to retire in.

I know our diocess is cash short at the mo 26 vicars for the whole of lincolnshire, looking in 5 yrs time to cut that to 9 as they cant afford them, not enough money invested into the church by people that want to use them maybe twice in their lives.

lincroft1710

bluebluecow wrote: »

I know our diocess is cash short at the mo 26 vicars for the whole of lincolnshire, looking in 5 yrs time to cut that to 9 as they cant afford them

I am assuming this diocese only covers NE Lincolnshire, as I'm originally from South Lincolnshire and the town of Stamford has 5 churches with about 4 vicars.

bluebluecow

Nope in long term will be whole of lincolnshire. At the mo Grimsby has 3 vicars for one church, but my dad Just outside grimsby has 9 churches.

One of the plans is that the vicars will be shared by where the money is to afford them, so if a well attended church they will get their vicar. We have some village churches where average congregation is 2, so they will be without a vicar in the furture and merged into other churches.

I know this as my dad is on the map group, which is the planning group for the furture of the diocese, goes to lincoln for meeting ect

Arthritic_Toe

In my village there is a lot of resentment of the fact that various Commission-owned residential properties in the most beautiful areas around the village are standing empty and literally crumbling. There is a shortage of housing in the area and many people would love to buy these houses and renovate them. The Commission flatly refuse to sell them or place outlandish values on them (2 or 3 times the professional valuation). So they just stand there crumbling year after year. The only explanation I can come up with is that these outlandish values are the ones they hold as the values within their declared portfolio and by just sitting there, the 'paper' value is far greater than the actual value were they to sell them.

Arthritic_Toe

LydiaJ wrote: »

iolanthe07 has already stated that the C of E has assets of some £4bn, and the site to which you have linked agrees, so I don't see why you are accusing her of being ignorant.

iolanthe07 has also said that the C of E's assets essentially constitute its pension fund, which has an otherwise unfunded liability to provide defined benefit pensions for thousands of clergy.

iolanthe07 has further pointed out that there isn't much market for redundant churches. It is also relevant that churches that are not redundant consume a lot of money in upkeep - especially the large number of listed ones.

It doesn't help that local people (especially in rural parishes) frequently object to any alterations being made to church buildings to make them more flexible so that they can be used throughout the week rather than just on Sundays. Those who object are usually not those who use the church regularly - just people who expect there to be a pretty church available, complete with traditional pews, whenever they happen to want to have a wedding or funeral (or maybe at Christmas).

Give me strength! :-) I quoted her calling ME ignorant. Do you actually read these things before commenting?

Iolanthe07 stated "Ignorant people talk about the Church of England sitting on vast wealth, but this is a myth". In FACT it is not a myth (if £4bn isn't vast wealth, I don't know what is). My use of the word "ignorant" was an ironic refrerence to her own post. If you're going to call someone ignorant, you need to be pretty sure of your facts, and in this case, she is the one who is incorrect.

Catbells

bluebluecow wrote: »

Also as he is now 62, and due to retire too, he has been told that he may or may not get funding for a reasonable priced house, he has been adviced it may be about £20000, not much to buy a house. Most new vicars are selling their houses or renting them out so thay have either the money or the property to retire in.

He may be having early retirement at 62 since the official retirement age for vicars is 70.

One church in our neighbourhood has just had a wonderful amount of refurbishment with the help of Lottery funding and parish financial support. Some may balk at this idea but like all establishments the Church has to get 'modern' in order to survive not be stuck in the sleepy ragged image it has gained over the year. I say well done to the vicar who organised it! They have opened up the crypt to the public with kitchen and function rooms.

neverdespairgirl

Catbells wrote: »

I don't think the church next door has bells as its in a residential area. From comments on here I could start a thread with stories of the 'knocks at the door in the night' I am about to receive. Maybe I won't be as light hearted about it all once it starts.:eek:

Loads of villages have very loud church bells bang in the middle!

neverdespairgirl

heretolearn wrote: »

'There is not a huge market for redundant medieval churches.'

I'd disagree with that. Many of my clients are 'new' independent churches and they'd chew off one of their own legs to get hold of a property like that. Out of all our clients, only 1 is in an old church building. The rest are in offices/shops/warehouses etc that they've managed to get re-zoned. Not ideal.

Redundant churches and new church seekers tend to be in different places, sadly.

the C of E policy is always to sell first to another church, if possilbe.

neverdespairgirl

PasturesNew wrote: »

As I recall, they get paid a lot - and where I used to live the job seemed to be mostly about riding round the village on your bike, popping in to have tea with locals.

They certainly aren't well paid! Curates get about £14k to £15k. The max for a vicar is about £28k, after decades. And you need a lot of higher education first. It takes about 8 years to qualify.

I think the Primate of All England, the Archbishop of Canterbury, gets £55k to £60. Bishops get £30k to £35k.