Help Please, Im Bankrupt and didnt Know!!

JCS1

DVardysShadow wrote: »

I would be really surprised if this were the case. It has already been stated here that the grounds for annulment are either paying off the debts or procedural errors in the granting of the order.

In either case, I cannot see 'behaviour' subsequent to bankruptcy is the least bit relevant to lifting the order. Bankruptcy is not actually intended as a punishment and I cannot see any benefit in refusing to annul if the grounds for annulment are fulfilled, regardless of failing to cooperate with the OR or whatever.

Perhaps annulment is being confused with discharge, where the bankrupt's conduct may well be taken into account.

The OR does prepare a report to court for an annullment hearing which the judge does read. I've drafted some of these so they do exist. This is why co-operating with the OR is important, even if you are considering annullment.

debtinfo

DVardysShadow wrote: »

I would be really surprised if this were the case. It has already been stated here that the grounds for annulment are either paying off the debts or procedural errors in the granting of the order.

In either case, I cannot see 'behaviour' subsequent to bankruptcy is the least bit relevant to lifting the order. Bankruptcy is not actually intended as a punishment and I cannot see any benefit in refusing to annul if the grounds for annulment are fulfilled, regardless of failing to cooperate with the OR or whatever.

Perhaps annulment is being confused with discharge, where the bankrupt's conduct may well be taken into account.

It is important to remember that annulment is not a right, it is discretionary on the part of the judge in paid in full cases, so even if you pay all your debts the judge does not have to grant an annulment, slightly different in ought not have been made cases, but that is why the judge asks for an OR's report, additionally the OR can report if there are other debts outstanding and if the person has not co-operated with the OR and the OR can not confidently say that all debts are accounted for the judge (in paid in full cases) may decide not to annull

Therefore it is always wise to be respectfull of the OR and the judge and court process, but as i said in my post that does not stop you from pushing your own point of view

confused?

Thanks all. I think this was covered earlier. But again thanks for your comments all are appreciated. Does anyone have any advice on my last post?

Thanks
C?

BLT_2

confused? wrote: »

Just for info,
This is what they said about my REVISED SOA

Travelling

Your car is a 2.2 diesel engine and you travel 66 miles per day to and from work (330 miles per week)
Your vehicle should average 40 miles per gallon for the journey done
EH! and a car with 170k on the clock runs as it says in the catalogue 40mpg my bum, they dont run like this brand spanking new, and there is no way on earth you canb get anywhere near this on the motorway at rush hour M1 and M62 at 07:45. think the OR has the same reasoning as the missus! (it says oxo on busses!)

1 gallon of diesel = 4.546 litres at £1.20 per litre = £5.45 per gallon - £5.50 allowed
330 miles / 40 = 8.25 gallons per week @ £5.50 = £45.38 per week = £196.47 per month.
not at all true it costs £80 per week without fail

As I have allowed £258 for petrol and parking (of £30) – I have not amended this figure Cheers

I have also allowed the car maintenance for your car alone - £60 per month for the milage i do it is what i put down and this was diversified.

Prescriptions

Your letter gives an amount of £30 per month for prescriptions, based on the 5 regular prescriptions that you have. I have allowed £10 per month for this as a 3-month pre-payment certificate is available for £28.25. what about my missus, and dentist, and opticians

Pet Expenses – the only expense considered for pets is for food and the maximum is £20 per month for all pets. Cat litter £10per month (indoor cats) food £20 per month, what about vaccinations and vet bills at £16 per visit minimum, fish tank filters £5.00 per month

We cannot consider expenses that you would like to take out – such as boiler cover and life cover what if i die, what if the boiler packs in, gas service is required yearly, i nolonger have emergency income allowed to cover this?

As a night owl I have been reading this thread with fascination, I feel for you and hope that it gets resolved without too much impact on your family.

I do feel that in some cases your expectations are high with regards to retention, clearly the OR is going to ask why you need to maintain a fish tank, in addition they will wonder why you need to keep 2 cats with the associated vets bills etc. I know from experience these can run into hundreds of pounds in some cases.

Your figures for petrol do not make sense to be honest, if you drive 330 miles a week and use 80 pounds of petrol at 5.50 a gallon this equates to an MPG of 22.5 mpg, clearly they are going to question this sort of MPG on a diesel car, this is sports car consumption. I'm not sure if anyone has asked this but can you not use your wifes car if the fuel consumption is lower?

I was interested to note that you paid all your bills for 4 months with your overdraft (bit of a double whammy there as it then became an unauthorised overdraft with the associated interest and charge), clearly to ensure your mortgage was paid, I ask only out of interest but would this not be percieved as deliberately increasing your debt prior to bankruptcy by the powers that be?

They clearly believe you are being unrealistic and I suspect in certain areas you are, that said your points are very valid, their calculations leave very little space for those sudden expenses (such as boiler issues which you mention) and the necessity for life insurance to make sure our loved ones are not left high and dry.

Good Luck

confused?

PARIS_5000 wrote: »

That sounds okay to me.

Hi parris I reviews the exact same letter the other day

confused?

Is this ok as a seccond reply?

---

FORMAL NOTICE – CCA & SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST.

Date: XXth November 2010

Your Ref:! XXX/XXX
Acct No:!!! 00000XXXXXXX

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter dated NOVEMBER 2010, the contents of which have been noted. In your letter you make reference to requiring my signed authorisation, and other information for identification.

I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not require that I supply you a copy of my signature. If it is for Data Protection purposes then I can supply you with documentation to substantiate my identity to you. However, I note that to date you have happily sent my details and correspondence containing extensive sensitive private information to several debt collection agencies addresses in order to pursue the alleged outstanding balance of the alleged account.

May I at this point highlight that IN THE COUNTY COURT! XXX-2010,! I XXXXXX of! XXXXX, XXX, XXXXX, XXX XXXXXXX, XXX XXX, DOB XTH of !XXXXX 19XX have been made bankrupt by Lowell Portfolio 1 LTD, for the HFC ACCOUNT 00000XXXXXXX.
This information alone in regards to the above account, should be more than sufficient to enable you to process the information and forward the relevant CCA and SAR to me at the above address.

I have to ask, if you are so concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person why have I you disclosed this information in the first instance, and why have these agencies been able to pursue a debt of this status and based on this uncertain information, petition for, and successfully initiate my bankruptcy.!

As you are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contrary to the 7th principal of Data Protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data protection Act 1998:
7. Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

I note that there is no provision that removes the requirements of the act to provide this information on time, even if you are unsure of my identity. As such, I look forward to receiving the documentation requested, WITHIN THE NEXT 12 DAYS FOR THE CCA AND 40 DAYS FOR THE SUBJECT ACCES REQUEST.

Yours faithfully

PARIS_5000

confused? wrote: »

Is this ok as a seccond reply?

---

FORMAL NOTICE – CCA & SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST.

Date: XXth November 2010

Your Ref:! XXX/XXX
Acct No:!!! 00000XXXXXXX

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter dated NOVEMBER 2010, the contents of which have been noted. In your letter you make reference to requiring my signed authorisation, and other information for identification.

I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not require that I supply you a copy of my signature. If it is for Data Protection purposes then I can supply you with documentation to substantiate my identity to you. However, I note that to date you have happily sent my details and correspondence containing extensive sensitive private information to several debt collection agencies addresses in order to pursue the alleged outstanding balance of the alleged account.

May I at this point highlight that IN THE COUNTY COURT! XXX-2010,! I XXXXXX of! XXXXX, XXX, XXXXX, XXX XXXXXXX, XXX XXX, DOB XTH of !XXXXX 19XX have been made bankrupt by Lowell Portfolio 1 LTD, for the HFC ACCOUNT 00000XXXXXXX.
This information alone in regards to the above account, should be more than sufficient to enable you to process the information and forward the relevant CCA and SAR to me at the above address.

I have to ask, if you are so concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person why have I you disclosed this information in the first instance, and why have these agencies been able to pursue a debt of this status and based on this uncertain information, petition for, and successfully initiate my bankruptcy.!

As you are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contrary to the 7th principal of Data Protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data protection Act 1998:
7. Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

I note that there is no provision that removes the requirements of the act to provide this information on time, even if you are unsure of my identity. As such, I look forward to receiving the documentation requested, WITHIN THE NEXT 12 DAYS FOR THE CCA AND 40 DAYS FOR THE SUBJECT ACCES REQUEST.

Yours faithfully

Hi Confused

Its nice to hear that you are okay. I think that you should now refer the matter to the FOS because you have given enough time for the CCA and they seem unwilling to do the subject accress request.

I think that you should send HFC a final letter of complaint and mention the FOS in the letter then you can send your complaint to the FOS.

confused?

PARIS_5000 wrote: »

Hi Confused

Its nice to hear that you are okay. I think that you should now refer the matter to the FOS because you have given enough time for the CCA and they seem unwilling to do the subject accress request.

I think that you should send HFC a final letter of complaint and mention the FOS in the letter then you can send your complaint to the FOS.

hi PARIS 5000, thanks for your thoughts, they do reflect mine.

just a quick update.
sorry for the no contact for a few week agan. i feel if i just spend as little time as i can worrying i can work more effectively.

right the update.

in the end i sent them a reply asking for the SAR CCA etc with a list of past addresses (past six years plus my parents address i have been at before that).

i signed the sheets and attached a letter from the insolvency service addressed to me.

they are still insisting i send a passport or driving licence copy (and signature) to them before they will act.

they say they wont process it untill they recieve this.

what i did was at the bottom of my letter i made a block of x's

XXXXXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXX

like so and signed over them?

they are still within the 40 days of the last letter dated the 9th nov but when i first requested the info it is nearly 4 month ago?
surly they cant keep starting the 40 days again and should have had enough with what i sent.

lowels made me bankrupt over this so that alone should be enough proof.

i dont get it?

I feel im being messed about, i'll be discharged by the time i get it annulled at this rate?

i'll probably send the LBA as they dont seem to beplaying the game

any oppinions?

thanks
RC?

[ PS Today i recieved a letter from a company called Active Capital persuing an alledged debt from as long ago as the others (again if mine stat barred etc...)
Original Creditor down as ***HFC***.
so they say they dont know if im me and they have instructed someone else to persue another account in the same way ].

[ PPS The OR reduced the IPA ammount (offer) significantly which is more reasonable.
i have a week to sign it? should i?
they know im looking for anullment
does it matter if i sign it will it go against me or make the court refuse anullment if i agree to it? ].

confused?

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...-requests.html

I just found this, it looks like they can ask for passport copy etc if they are unsure on who they are dealing with.

Thing is if I'm bankrupt because of this then how can they be unsure of who I am?

It's all back to front if you ask me.

I will have to send it as they can ask for it but I still think its wrong bearing in mind the circumstance.

So 40 days starts again for the 4th time! I will deffo be discharged by the time this is sorted.

Emerald_Vixon

Confused?,

Firstly I read your post in one sitting and my heart goes out to you. It is a disgrace that in this country our brave service personnel are thrown to the sharks of the debt collectors after they have served this country so well!

Why is there no service or charity to assist you with legal representation in this matter?

I wanted to throw a few curve balls at you incase they have not been mentioned to you before, are you a member of any union, trade body or association? If so most of them offer a free legal service that you may be able to use. The same applies to your home insurance and motor insurance, the legal cover you see included in these policies can cover things which are non-home or motor related.

If I were you I would complain to the FOS & ICO now. The FOS because due process was not followed when your bankruptcy was filed for (as the petitioner has a consumer credit license all of their activities can be examined by the FOS). Also the ICO as I think lowels are being deliberately obstructive and difficult. I would also raise this issue with the Office of Fair Trading as they have an interest in the aggressive practice or disproportionate methods of recovery.

On three separate items,

home ownership transfer, you can do it two ways, form TR1 available from the land registry or a deed of trust, this is where you declare that you hold ½ of the beneficial interest (equity) of the property on trust for your wife. This has the result that she owns the whole thing as she owns the other half in her own name anyway. Pop "deed of trust" in to a search engine for a draft to pop up for you.

Argued MPG of your vehicle, do you have one of those trip computers? If so next time you fill up set it to 0 and see what your over all mileage per tank is, take a picture of the result. Use this as further supporting evidence or you could simply write the mileage on the back of the receipt when you fill up, this would show what you have been getting per tank. If this is not convincing enough evidence for the OR then complain they have the method for this on the insolvency.gov.uk website.

Suspicious loitering individual, every time you or your good lady sees him call the police and get a record of the report, when he is cornered you will then have enough evidence to 1 apply for and injunction (you can get one against an individual debt collector etc but not the whole business (to my knowledge)) and then when time and circumstances permit claim via FOS or Court for harassment and distress.

And lastly it would seem that unknown bankruptcy happens to people in all walks of life even those who are familiar with the legal system ( type all the w's dot then "thelawyer.com/barrister-to-challenge-bankruptcy/81177.article" )

I hope some of this helps.