EPA letter from council re. cigarette end

ih8stress

It was but he'd just finished a long shift at work when he read the letter and couldn't even remember where he was on the day in question.

He wouldn't need me to tell him to pay it if he's in the wrong - (he'll probably just pay up regardless anyway to avoid hassle). I'm more concerned about getting letters of accusation out of the blue.

Strider590

Fag ends are actually a serious issue for councils.....

They block up the drainage on the roads (because they float and don't decompose) which costs £££££ to get cleaned out.
You'd be the first to complain when there's a flood.

Personally though I just get sick of picking them out of my radiator and the air vents under the bloody wiper blades!!

sassy_one

The trouble with Council having these such powers, they can abuse it and use it for 'offences' that may not be absolute.

A mother, who has a child who drops a wrapper or something similar, should not be fined, as children will be children.

A clear case of this happening was in the public light a little while back, see here:

http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/news/Banana-lands-mum-163-50-fine/article-1839398-detail/article.html

However, for anyone who receives one of these Fines, there is an appeal process, just like a Parking Ticket, and they must have/gain evidence to prove you are in the wrong and did commit the offence.

You can find out about the appeals process by looking here:

www.belfastcity.gov.uk/antilitter/fines.asp

And here:

www.exeter.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=833


However, you need to be made aware, if you lose the appeal, the Fine will increase, how much by will depend of your Council.

You will find the exact appeal details for your Fine, on your Council's website, but I would only recommend appealing if you know for 100% sure you did not do it, as it will be a costly appeal if you lose it.

thescouselander

ih8stress wrote: »

After all, any 'jobsworth' could note down a street name, date, time and car registration number and say they 'saw' something.

This is exactly the problem - there have been instances of council officials fabricating offences (usually more to do with parking incidents) especially when they have to meet targets to get bonuses.

That is it why it is essential to exercise your legal right to see the evidence if something like this happens.

sagalout1954

The worst advice you've received so far is #6 "do not contact the council at this stage"! DO NOT simply ignore the letter. Your son may find that the 'charge' changes to one of failing to supply requested information instead - though he must be careful not to incriminate himself.

Do everything in writing (no telephone conversations). Request all evidence of this 'offence' (ie what litter, was it picked up by whoever 'reported' the offence, was this person a council official or a member of the public etc). If the council don't cave in at this point, then follow through with the appeals process.

IF this ends with a summons HE MUST ATTEND the Magistrates Court and plead not guilty (you can't do that in writing anyway), more often than not the cases the council win are non attendees. The few that aren't completely unnerved by the thought of the experience will go, explain that they have never been in the habit of throwing rubbish out the window and never would. Unless the council have photographic evidence they can't PROVE he did anything. His word against theirs.

You know anyone can attend hearings in a Magistrates Court, you just ring and ask when the Council has any for these offences, in fact I'd probably ask the council for their next lot of hearing dates (they'll be done in blocks, not higgledy piggledy individually) so you can go along and watch! Schlep along and sit in the back - give you a good idea of the process before he may have to do it - you'll see how UN-scary it is actually.

Sir_Roger_deLodger

sagalout1954 wrote: »

The worst advice you've received so far is #6 "do not contact the council at this stage"! DO NOT simply ignore the letter. Your son may find that the 'charge' changes to one of failing to supply requested information instead - though he must be careful not to incriminate himself.

Under what law exactly? Unlike the police, councils cannot issue a request under s172 RTA. He is under no obligation to tell them anything.

sarahg1969

sagalout1954 wrote: »

The worst advice you've received so far is #6 "do not contact the council at this stage"! DO NOT simply ignore the letter. Your son may find that the 'charge' changes to one of failing to supply requested information instead - though he must be careful not to incriminate himself.

I have referred the OP to pepipo for further advice. And have provided details of the legislation from pepipoo threads.

Perhaps you would like to point us in the direction of the legislation that states that one is obliged to provide information under the EPA?

vaio

Sir_Roger_deLodger wrote: »

Under what law exactly? Unlike the police, councils cannot issue a request under s172 RTA. He is under no obligation to tell them anything.

It's not an RTA request, I guess it's a request under EPA S19(2). (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1990/ukpga_19900043_en_1)

It’s another one of the ridiculous application, a law intended to stop tanker drivers dumping toxic waste in the countryside is now being used to supplement the council tax by fining drivers who toss fag ends. Bit like the anti-terror laws being used for catch people who leave dog crap in parks.

molerat

An interesting view on the subject http://www.cieh.org/ehp/ehp3.aspx?id=8314
seems to be of the opinion that the council have no authority to demand the information from the RK although s19(2) gives the LA pretty open ended powers.

babyshoes

OP, if your son can't remember if he did actually drop a cigarette end from his car or not, that to me implies that it is something he is in the habit of doing - therefore it is likely he did do it. I would still ask for the evidence though, just to be sure, even if he is planning on paying up!