Tenant stopped paying rent - urgent help please

BornAtTheRightTime

Seriously, how difficult is it to pop round, turn on the taps and verify for yourself whether they have hot water?

princeofpounds

I'm not quite sure why so many people are slating the OP. A landlord is quite within their rights to provide the number of an emergency plumber who sorts the problems on behalf of them. As long as the landlord pays all the costs of the emergency plumber, this is perfectly fine.

Because the only obligation of the tenant is to notify the landlord. They don't have to dial a plumber or anything else. Once the landlord is notified, is is their obligation to sort it out, and they cannot delegate that responsibility to anyone else.

They can delegate actions, such as through an agent, but they can never delegate the responsibility. So if they try to delegate the the tenant (without any agreement on the part of the tenant for that matter!) then the tenant can just tell them to go whistle if they really want. The water still needs to be fixed.

Combine that with the fact that the OP took huge offence at some 'tough love' kind of talk (very few of the accusations were off the mark given what people had been told) and this is why the slating happens.

In subsequent posts it seems to be that there might be more to the story than meets the eye in terms of the hot water, but initially it just appeared to be a case of a neglectful landlord who was thought it was right to care about the rent but not about the obligations of being a landlord.

tbs624

Stella - as others have said whether or not you are a reluctant LL you do have quite specific "repairing obligations".

You acknowledge that the T's rent is paying your mortgage, without which you'd be stuffed at the moment.

Sometimes you have to bite your tongue and smile and do the right thing, so that your own conscience is clear and all relevant boxes can be ticked.

Always insist that Ts notify you of repairs issues *in writing*, act on them promptly and keep the T informed about what you are doing, also in writing. Keep copies.

Don't view Ts raising issues as Ts "moaning" - sometimes a Ts early action in contacting the LL/LA can prevent a more costly problem devloping later on.

princeofpounds wrote: »

J
You really need to get on top of your obligations. They cannot be delegated.

You can delegate to people to whom you pay a fee, whilst ensuring that the job gets done, but you can't expect a T to sort out your maintenance problems on your behalf and you especially cannot shunt off Gas reg compliance.

Often when people are stressed they do not communicate well. Letter to T:

" thanks for bringing x to our attention. We use xx company: would you prefer to arrange a mutually convenient time/date direct with them on tel no , or would you like us to fix the appointment?"

You speak to x company and ask them to confirm with you the date booked and the result of their visit and/or follow it up direct with the T.

You have to see to repairs within a "reasonable" timeframe - I'd say that means making an early phone call & getting a HE to sort it 3/5 days for a hot water/heating problems, with the LL paying for temporary hire of water boiler/heaters if it cannot be sorted straight away.

Ts who try to withold their rent tend to do so because of a perceived lack of prompt action/communication from the LL/LA. However, rent and repairs have to be treated separately, notwithstanding the "Izzet principle" if there is a genuine repairs problem that has dragged on.

As others have said, get your plumber to confirm in writing what the current situation is and politely copy that to the T. Ask the T to confirm in writing "if there are any further problems"

If you and the Ts cannot see eye to eye then its probably best to to try to exercise the break clause. However, you have no guarantee that your business relationship with the next set of Ts will be any easier, unless you perhaps try to change how you view things.

tbs624

princeofpounds wrote: »

They can delegate actions, such as through an agent, but they can never delegate the responsibility. So if they try to delegate the the tenant (without any agreement on the part of the tenant for that matter!) then the tenant can just tell them to go whistle if they really want. The water still needs to be fixed.

I agree with your point but most Ts would probably prefer to fix a HE appt at their own convenience rather than have tuesday between 8am and 4.30pm foisted upon them. I guess much depends on the way in which this is presented to a T.

PosterBoy77

princeofpounds wrote: »

Because the only obligation of the tenant is to notify the landlord. They don't have to dial a plumber or anything else. Once the landlord is notified, is is their obligation to sort it out, and they cannot delegate that responsibility to anyone else.

They can delegate actions, such as through an agent, but they can never delegate the responsibility. So if they try to delegate the the tenant (without any agreement on the part of the tenant for that matter!) then the tenant can just tell them to go whistle if they really want. The water still needs to be fixed.

Combine that with the fact that the OP took huge offence at some 'tough love' kind of talk (very few of the accusations were off the mark given what people had been told) and this is why the slating happens.

In subsequent posts it seems to be that there might be more to the story than meets the eye in terms of the hot water, but initially it just appeared to be a case of a neglectful landlord who was thought it was right to care about the rent but not about the obligations of being a landlord.

I don't see anything about the OP suggesting that responsibility is being delegated. Asking the tenants to call your preferred plumber to make an apointment is certainly far better for a tenant than a landlord telling the tenant which time the plumber will arrive, without any choice. Also, in this case where there oculd be an intermittent problem, it may be best a plumber arrives ASAP to see the problem whilst it is there.

A landlord is in their rights to ask tenants to call a specific number for plumbing problems. Some landlords are big organisations. Do you think that in every case only one person ever deals with issues?

There was nothing in the original post to suggest a neglectful landlord. There was a specific paragraph about a plumber already having been out to the property, stating it was all working.

princeofpounds

You can delegate to people to whom you pay a fee

To be precise, you *cannot* delegate the responsibility. That sentence was worded quite carefully - you can delegate tasks, but that is not the same thing as the responsibility remains at your level. Although if you act reasonably and the professional messes you around then you have some defence in terms of the time taken to reach a resolution, but the responsibility to ensure repairs on a reasonable basis is not altered.

I don't see anything about the OP suggesting that responsibility is being delegated. Asking the tenants to call your preferred plumber to make an apointment is certainly far better for a tenant than a landlord telling the tenant which time the plumber will arrive, without any choice.............

A landlord is in their rights to ask tenants to call a specific number for plumbing problems.

Look, it might be practically better if you have a tenant who is willing to call a professional - in fact I agree that is usually is - but you are totally missing the point making that kind of argument.

If the tenant doesn't call, for whatever reason, then the landlord is still failing in their obligations. Palming someone off, even to a professional, changes nothing.

Yes, a landlord is within their rights to ASK a tenant to call a number, but frankly they can ask anything they like and it doesn't change a single thing - at all points it is up to the landlord to effect repairs.

Tenants can have all sorts of valid reasons for not acting as the landlord's dogsbody. The biggest reason is the matter of instruction, when it comes to tradesmen. If the tenant calls them out, unless the tradesman has pre-instruction from the landlord then the tenant takes on liability for their fees if the landlord doesn't pay up, a liability that may not be wanted. But that's by the by, why they didn't call doesn't matter to section 11 in the landlord and tenants act.

Some landlords are big organisations. Do you think that in every case only one person ever deals with issues?

Big organisations are treated pretty much as 'natural persons' in law. i.e. they combined company has the legal responsiiblities of an individual. So it doesn't require one person from the company to deal with everything, it requires the company as a whole to deal with everything.

we told them to ring the mergency plumber, which they never did. we have paid a plumber over £500 to fit new taps and a new shower to try and solve the problem but they are still moaning, and now this text to say they are stopping paying the rent.

THIS is the part that gave an impression of neglect. 'try and solve the problem' indicates that the problem was not solved. 'they are still moaning' indicates that the landlord somehow thinks it unreasonable to complain about a lack of hot water. And the discussion continues all about the rent with no reference to reciprocal obligations. Now it turns out later on that this might just be sloppy writing and the situation was more complex, but the initial impression was pretty clear to everyone who 'slated' the LL.

RobertoMoir

mikael wrote: »

I don't see anything about the OP suggesting that responsibility is being delegated. Asking the tenants to call your preferred plumber to make an apointment is certainly far better for a tenant than a landlord telling the tenant which time the plumber will arrive, without any choice.

Agreed, but if the tenants don't call for whatever reason, the LL can't then shrug their shoulders when they call back asking when the LL is going to do something. It might be in the tenant's interests to help solve the problem but it's the LL's responsibility to ensure that the problem gets fixed no matter what.

Also, in this case where there oculd be an intermittent problem, it may be best a plumber arrives ASAP to see the problem whilst it is there.

Oh I agree. However...

A landlord is in their rights to ask tenants to call a specific number for plumbing problems.

And the tenant is well within their rights to say "No thanks, I've already notified the LL as is my responsibility, I'll expect you to make arrangements to deal with this."

That might not be helpful. It might not be the most efficient way for them to get their problem fixed. It might mean they're jerks if this is how they behave, I've got no problem with agreeing to any of those statements (while noting that they may also have valid reasons too)...

... but it's all they have to do.

Some landlords are big organisations. Do you think that in every case only one person ever deals with issues?

How a large corporation chooses to discharge its responsibilities internally are the large corporation's problem. Not the customer's.

mooks

I had some experience of a similar situation as a tenant around seven or eight years ago - the hot water stopped working, so I called and then wrote (purely to put the discussion i writing) to the LL. The LL made every reasonable effort to put the matter right, and kept me informed of their actions the entire time.

In the end, it turned out that the boiler was faulty (it was a new build and I was the first tenant), and it would take some time to get hold of the necessary parts to repair it. The LL was courteous and professional throughout, and kept me informed verbally and by e-mail.

It was nice of them to do that, but more importantly, it gave them the paper trail that demonstrated that they had been reasonable throughout the process by advising me of any delay and keeping me informed at every step.

It's one thing to be reasonable, but you also have to be seen to be reasonable in case any disputes arise.

I support what others have said in terms of arranging the repairs yourself. When it comes down to it, you can make an informal agreement with the tenants that you'll wait at the property to let a plumber in - and it also gives you the peace of mind knowing that the plumber has been, the job's done, and all you've had to do is take a morning/afternoon off work to do it - which will save you long term hassle. Depending on what work you do, you may even be able to work from home - of sorts - so you don;t need to expend any annual leave.

In my situation, the LL gave me a little of my rent back when I left the property to make up for me having to shower at the local leisure centre for the two weeks.

If you've got a problem tenant, then it won't be quite as easy, but surely if you're making arrangements personally to get the work done, you have much more power to you if further disputes arise. It's much more effective after all to be able to say that you were there when the work got done and you know for a fact that the hot water is working.

On top of that, if they are problem tenants or they're having problems paying, do you have an amicable enough relationship with them to talk to them about any problems? If they communicate by text then I'd imagine the answer to be yes - in which case it may be far better to sit down and talk frankly about their problems and come to a compromise than for them to keep mucking you about by withholding rent etc.

FOURCANDLES_2

Well we manage peoples second/and holiday homes with the latter if they contact us to say they have a problem we do the leg work if I were you and they said it is not fixed why have you not been around asked to take a look if the water comes out hot say there you go rent on time please if not see what the problem is , is the temp of the water set high enough?

TwistedPsycho

I am actually surprised at some of the comments made by some of the long standing members of the forum. This is because this is what I interpret the problem as

* The OP's tenants have complained about mice in the property. The OP has contacted the council and they have come out and declared no pest problem.
* The OP's tenants have complained that there is no hot water. The OP suggested the tenants arrange the plumber to come out and the plumber would be paid either directly, or through the tenants paying and being reimbursed by the OP. When this was not done the OP arranged a plumber themself and the plumber concluded that there was no fault, although the taps and shower are being replaced for new as a precaution.

I would interpret that as the tenants are looking to pay as little rent for the property as they can, by their insistance at cancelling the SO and only offering half rent and even though the plumber said there was no issue, there is still a new bathroom going in at the OP's expence.

I actually think these tenants are giving the OP the run-around, despite what others seem to conclude. Maybe, just maybe someone with a bit of knowledge (as I haven't) could give the OP a bit of advice on how is best to terminate the agreement as this appears to be what they are after.