Tenant stopped paying rent - urgent help please

theartfullodger

we as landlords have done everything we can to resolve all their issues as quickly as possible - they have complained of not hot water in the bathroom - we told them to ring the mergency plumber, which they never did.

-- err, Lady, you are the Landlord, you have responsibility for sorting out plumbing problems so no you haven't done "everything we can to resolve all their issues"... You should call emergency plumber anyway (they usually respond quicker to bigger customers), but give tenant the authority to call them out at your expense if you so wish...

(i cant afford to let them go early as we rely on their rent to pay the mortgage)

Sigh! So why have you gone into a business when you can't cope with a small hiccough?? If you ain't got the financial & emotional reserves to cope with, say, 6months of no rent & legal bills to get someone out or, say, needing a new roof suddenly then many would suggest you are in the wrong business & need to find another career....

i am so angry and upset ..

Blimey, would I guess right that you ain't had any "real" problems from tenants or properties going bad?? This problem of yours ain't a big one by any means in my humble opinion...

does anyone have any info or advice

.
Yup, step up to your responsibilities & deliver the service the tenant has (already!) paid for..and make sure everything else (Gas safety, mortgage lenders permission, insurance etc, etc, etc, income declared to tax-man - all obviously sorted in your case) is correct before this ends up in court...

If you are unclear what your responsibilities are see ..HHSRS

http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/housing/hhsrsoperatingguidance

The Housing Health and Safety Rating System (HHSRS) is a risk based evaluation tool to help local authorities identify and protect against potential risks and hazards to health and safety from any deficiencies identified in dwellings. It was introduced under the Housing Act 2004 and came into effect on 6 April 2006. It applies to residential properties in England.

The HHSRS assesses 29 categories of housing hazard, each hazard has a weighting which will help determine whether the property is rated as having Category 1 (serious) or Category 2 (other) .

&
http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/housing/repairsguide?view=Standard



Cheers!

Lodger
PS Landlord for 10+ years: Had tenants not paying THOUSANDS, had the "broken toilet at weekend" call, had tenant ripp out carpets and thereby rip storage radiators off walls, had tenants sublet (for more money than the rent, when not permitted to do so, in contravention of Country's laws - HMO, Scotland...) whilst not paying me rent - they carried on subletting after months of visits, letters, letter from Solicitor, been accused of various crimes by council housing dept (innocent guv!!), had a tenant leave but leave behind a young couple with a baby... as squatters....).I quite like being a Landlord & make money from it (usually, most years... )

PPS Your Agent sounds an idiot: Sack them they ain't doing much for their money are they??

stellaforstar

wow, im so sorry my problem is so small and insignificant that i dared to bother your greatness with it. you are obviously so much more intelligent and important than me because you have had problems that mean more than mine.

and by the way, i havent 'gone into a business'. it is not a career or our business - we both have full time jobs in the public sector. we are a family who both lost their jobs in the recession last year and then tried to sell our flat but couldnt. so we had to rent it out, although thats the last thing in the world we wanted to do. so yes, we do rely on the rent to pay the mortgage because we have used all our savings to LIVE for the last two years.

i wish I hadnt bothered to ask for help. all youve done is made me cry. thanks.

mchale

theartfullodger wrote: »

-- err, Lady, you are the Landlord, you have responsibility for sorting out plumbing problems so not you haven't done "everything we can to resolve all their issues"...

Sigh! So why have you gone into a business when you can't cope with a small hiccough?? If you ain't got the financial & emotional reserves to cope with, say, 6months of no rent & legal bills to get someone out or, say, needing a new roof suddenly then many would suggest you are in the wrong business & need to find another career....

Blimey, would I guess right that you ain't had any "real" problems from tenants or properties going bad?? This problem of yours ain't a big one by any means in my humble opinion...
.
Yup, step up to your responsibilities & deliver the service the tenant has (already!) paid for..and make sure everything else (Gas safety, mortgage lenders permission, insurance etc, etc, etc, income declared to tax-man - all obviously sorted in your case) is correct before this ends up in court...

If you are unclear what your responsibilities are see ..HHSRS

http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/housing/hhsrsoperatingguidance

&
http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/housing/repairsguide?view=Standard



Cheers!

Lodger
(Landlord for 10+ years: Had tenants not paying THOUSANDS, had the "broken toilet at weekend" call, had tenant ripp out carpets and thereby rip storage radiators off walls, had tenants sublet (for more money than the rent, when not permitted to do so, in contravention of Country's laws - HMO, Scotland...) whilst not paying me rent - they carried on after subletting after months of visits, letters, letter from Solicitor, been accused of various crimes by council housing dept, had a tenant leave but leave behind a young couple with a baby... as squatters....).I quite like being a Landlord & make money from it (usually, most years... )

Nothing more to say on the matter, above post says it all :T

robin_banks

stellaforstar wrote: »

wow, im so sorry my problem is so small and insignificant that i dared to bother your greatness with it. you are obviously so much more intelligent and important than me because you have had problems that mean more than mine.

and by the way, i havent 'gone into a business'. it is not a career or our business - we both have full time jobs in the public sector. we are a family who both lost their jobs in the recession last year and then tried to sell our flat but couldnt. so we had to rent it out, although thats the last thing in the world we wanted to do. so yes, we do rely on the rent to pay the mortgage because we have used all our savings to LIVE for the last two years.

i wish I hadnt bothered to ask for help. all youve done is made me cry. thanks.

Do you have permission from your mortgage compnay to rent it out?. If not yuo're in breach of your loan agreement.

Sorry you're upset but being a landlord invloves a lot more than just renting out a property you have numerous legal obligations to fulfill.

It's not a thing to take on lightly.

Once again sorry you're upset but in this instance you've found out the hard way what it's like to a landlord.

stellaforstar

of course i have permission from the mortgage company. of course i have gas safety certificate. of course i have the correct insurance. im not a !!!!in idiot. i am someone who is just asking for non-judgemental help. i thought this was the place, but obviously not.

Gwhiz

This is the Internet - everyone is judgmental

moromir

I'm not quite sure what all the animosity being hurled at the OP is in aid of.

OP - take a look at these advice pages from Shelter, they outline the only circumstances in which a tenant can withhold rent involving repairs.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/repairs_in_private_lets

If your tenants haven't followed the correct procedures, and you can prove you acted as responsibly as possible in organising contractors to attend, then you are in good stead. Go to a solicitor and get a free half hour on your situation.

Also - if your contractor is telling you the property has adequate hot water - get it in WRITING on their company headed paper. Preferably then get a second plumber's findings, also on headed paper (you will probably have to pay their call out fees but imo its worth it). Then send copies to the Council housing department along with a headed letter explaining that you're having problems with the tenants saying there is no hot water when you have two plumbers who have said they have. Then if a complaint is made to the council you have a paper trail in place.

Do you still have paperwork from the pest control saying there was no sign of mice then this would also be valuable to your case.

Good luck!

Brallaqueen

Stellaforstar, for the love of any god you choose please drop the wounded "you all hate me" act and actually read what has been said.

You are a novice landlord in a sea of trouble right now and these guys & gals here are trying to help you. Treat it as rough but caring love and you will benefit.

You are the landlord and you should be the one arranging repairs - it avoids unscrupulous tenants having a case against you for not doing it properly.

You have sent a plumber round who says there is hot water BRILLIANT get it in writing and copy to tenants (free cert of posting) and you should be able to claim the unneccesary call out fee back from the deposit.

Is your deposit protected, and have the tenants received the paperwork (this is another thing they might try it on with)

If the EHO has found no evidence of mice, get it in writing and copy to the tenants with a free certificate of posting. Don't worry, the EHO backs you up.

In the face of all the above it might be worth sending a polite letter to your tenants, copies of the above enclosed, saying that in the light of reports received from plumber and EHO there appears to be no problem and therefore full rent is expected on the due date blah blah blah. keep it civil (hard I know) and to the point.

You say you rely on the rent for the mortgage - what will you do when your tenants refuse access to remarket the property - I assume you know you cannot access the property without it?

grey_lady

You asked for advice, and received some good advice - just because you dont like it doesnt mean that it's not good advice.
Check the hot water situation for yourself asap, this morning if you can. If there's no hot water then get it fixed and apologise to the tenants for letting it go on for so long and accept the deduction in rent.

Accept the fact that it was your responsisbility to sort out the hot water, not the tenents, misunderstandings happen and they obviously thought you were going to get the plumber out which isnt unreasonable. If there is hot water then tell the tenent that you expect the rent in full and on time.

Just a suggestion but you may also want to consider going with a full managed service as you seem to find the managing aspect difficult.

princeofpounds

Just to add a bit more detail - as a landlord it is YOUR responsibility under section 11 of the landlord and tenant's act to ensure repairs are made. Whilst many tenants will happily help arrange things to make the process quicker, they don't have to lift a finger because they pay you to perform this service, and you have to perform the service under law.

Heating and hot water are particularly important. Unlike most general repairs, which are to be completed in a 'reasonable' time and become a civil issue if they are not, these two problems can be a criminal offence if not completed within a reasonable time. You also have a duty to provide alternative sources as soon as reasonably possible, even if it means you have to go and buy an electric fan heater and a big kettle for the tenants. Now normally you get plenty of warning, such as a local authority repairing order from environmental health, before any actual prosecution, but even so you don't want to be messing with that.

You really need to get on top of your obligations. They cannot be delegated.

Now you claim later on that they are getting hot water. There appears to be a breakdown in communication here and you need to find out what the truth is. The plumber's report is great, but if the problem is intermittent then he may not discover it. As suggested, you can send out another plumber but charge the tenants if they turn out to be lying or refuse entry. Personally I think it's 50/50 whether they are lying or deeply frustrated tenants.

Now, having said all that the tenants are wrong to stop paying rent. It is not a permitted retaliatory action. However, they are allowed to use a procedure outlined in Lee-Parker vs Izzet 1971 where they conduct the repairs themselves and deduct it from future rent. However, many tenants are not aware of this as no-one actually tells people about it so unless they come to forums like this they tend to do the only thing they can think of and withold rent.

They can also call in envronmental health to issue a repairing order as I mentioned above. These are legally-binding. And again, most tenants do not know this is an option.

Now, assuming that the problem is fixed and is a pretext to pay half rent, what can you do? The answer is not much, yet. But when total rent payments overdue (not rent arrears, which is subtly different) are over 2 months of rent then you can issue a section 8 eviction notice, on the grounds of late rent and frequent underpayment (visit landlordzone or google for info on this process). You can then take them to court and ask for an eviction (it is not automatic in this case).

Then you can use the section 21 procedure when you get to a break clause or the end of the fixed period. This is a guaranteed way to get them out in the sense that the judge cannot refuse a correctly-filed application, but it will take time if they do not leave of their own accord.

Of course, they might just want to get out from under a neglectful landlord!