Tenant stopped paying rent - urgent help please

N79

The above post by POP mostly contains excellent information for you to follow. I have added my comments below. Either way you need to face up to the fact that you are running a business and have legal obligations. At present you don't seem to have realised this and are acting like a daft amateur with hyperactive emotions. This has got to stop whether you like it or not. If you do have a professional T then you are currently walking (well running headlong really) into their trap. You unprofessional actions so far are marking you out as an easy target.

princeofpounds wrote: »

You really need to get on top of your obligations. They cannot be delegated.

Now you claim later on that they are getting hot water. There appears to be a breakdown in communication here and you need to find out what the truth is. The plumber's report is great, but if the problem is intermittent then he may not discover it. As suggested, you can send out another plumber but charge the tenants if they turn out to be lying or refuse entry. Personally I think it's 50/50 whether they are lying or deeply frustrated tenants.

I agree - 2.5 months is a little late for normal "professional T" behaviour to appear and they don't normally give notice. However, 2 problems in as many months and a LL that is not managing them would be enough to drive any T to frustration. Did the OP communicate and discuss the mouse outcome with the Ts or, from their point of view, does it appear that their LL just did nothing by claiming that they are lying.

Now, having said all that the tenants are wrong to stop paying rent. It is not a permitted retaliatory action. However, they are allowed to use a procedure outlined in Lee-Parker vs Izzet 1971 where they conduct the repairs themselves and deduct it from future rent. However, many tenants are not aware of this as no-one actually tells people about it so unless they come to forums like this they tend to do the only thing they can think of and withold rent.

They can also call in envronmental health to issue a repairing order as I mentioned above. These are legally-binding. And again, most tenants do not know this is an option.

Now, assuming that the problem is fixed and is a pretext to pay half rent, what can you do? The answer is not much, yet. But when total rent payments overdue (not rent arrears, which is subtly different) are over 2 months of rent then you can issue a section 8 eviction notice, on the grounds of late rent and frequent underpayment (visit landlordzone or google for info on this process). You can then take them to court and ask for an eviction (it is not automatic in this case).

Being a little pedantic (although a court will be far more pedantic) it is a section 8 ground 8 notice which should also include grounds 10 and 11 is insurance.

Then you can use the section 21 procedure when you get to a break clause or the end of the fixed period. This is a guaranteed way to get them out in the sense that the judge cannot refuse a correctly-filed application, but it will take time if they do not leave of their own accord.

Of course, they might just want to get out from under a neglectful landlord!

Just to add that it would also be worth talking to the Ts to see if they want a zero cost surrender. If they are going to be difficult Ts then the cost of remarketing and a short void is worth it. There is little point holding them to a 12 month tenancy if they are going to be extremely difficult Ts throughout (assuming they are difficult Ts rather than just frustrated at your poor property management).

princeofpounds wrote: »

Heating and hot water are particularly important. Unlike most general repairs, which are to be completed in a 'reasonable' time and become a civil issue if they are not, these two problems can be a criminal offence if not completed within a reasonable time. You also have a duty to provide alternative sources as soon as reasonably possible, even if it means you have to go and buy an electric fan heater and a big kettle for the tenants. Now normally you get plenty of warning, such as a local authority repairing order from environmental health, before any actual prosecution, but even so you don't want to be messing with that.

I disagree with this bit. POP - Breaching S11 is a civil matter. There is no criminal sanction unless a court makes an order under S17 and the LL ignores it.

theartfullodger

Re OP being upset: Nobody wants her to be upset,.. but OP may have at least two opportunities to find out the rules & regs...

a) Here, now, quickly so she can sort things out...
b) The hard way, with difficult tenant taking action, possible in court...


Re

and by the way, i havent 'gone into a business'.

err, sorry, you have, time to recognize that fact?

Also, I suggested...

and make sure everything else (Gas safety, mortgage lenders permission, insurance etc, etc, etc, income declared to tax-man - all obviously sorted in your case) is correct

OP replied with ...

of course i have permission from the mortgage company. of course i have gas safety certificate. of course i have the correct insurance. im not a !!!!in idiot. i am someone who is just asking for non-judgemental help.

Spot the difference? Must be a slip, clearly...

Cheers!

Lodger

Best wishes to all, including those who disagree with me

Cheers!

Lodger

princeofpounds

I disagree with this bit. POP - Breaching S11 is a civil matter. There is no criminal sanction unless a court makes an order under S17 and the LL ignores it.

True, i should say it's a potentially criminal matter. Thanks for all the comments.

N79

princeofpounds wrote: »

True, i should say it's a potentially criminal matter. Thanks for all the comments.

I was going to write more or less the same post content as you. Then I hit refresh and your post appeared covering everything anyway so I just thought I would add weight to it.

I also hope the OP can understand that the aim of tough talking is not to upset her. All the points made are the same that would be made by a judge in court. Much better to learn about them here. The comment "I am not a business" would provoke a barrage of derision from a county court judge!

To the OP: One point that has not been covered is that you need to start covering all your actions with this T in writing. If you have not done so already, write a letter to your Ts outlining the timeline to date in the plumbing dispute. Include the dates they reported the problems and your action to date to resolve it. Keep it factual. It should not mention emotion or blame at all (that is unprofessional) If they telephone in the future then immediately write a letter after each phone call confirming the contents of the conversation. You should always deal with these Ts in writing from now on.

ztan

The bane of my life. I work for a student accomodation provider, and it's hilarious what people will refuse to pa their rent for.

I would like to point out what jumped out at me... it sounds like they wanted some free work done on the bathroom. New taps and a new shower?! What on earth has that got to do with hot water?!

You have to be professional, and don't just give them what they want to make them happy.

Unfortunately you are obligated to arrange plumbers etc, and liaise with the tenants to resolve the issue. It does sound like you're doing the right things though, and Brallaqueen's above tips are spot on. Get the documentation from EHO re mice, and from the plumber. Send it to them in writing with confirmation that there is no problem, and full rental is due.

People cannot withhold rent, or force a reduction because of problems. We all live in the real world and if you'll forgive me "S41T happens" and normally there isn't anyone to moan at.

Be polite and explain that there has been no fault found and if they do not pay the FULL rent for the FULL period, you will be seeking legal advise. And then do it.

If they keep not paying, you can push for eviction proceedings. It's a hard process, but they also have a contractual obligation to pay their rent, as much as you have an obligation to provide the services.

Alias_Omega

Hi OP,

I would arrange a visit to the property, to view the fault thats not been fixed. Get them to show you.

If its the boiler, i believe hat British Gas offer a 1x fee to repair boiler for about £140 which we have used in the past.


We luckily pay an agent to deal with all this, so we dont get any emails / texts / phone calls about this.


Go pay a visit and see what the fuss is about..

RobertoMoir

stellaforstar wrote: »

wow, im so sorry my problem is so small and insignificant that i dared to bother your greatness with it. you are obviously so much more intelligent and important than me because you have had problems that mean more than mine.

and by the way, i havent 'gone into a business'. it is not a career or our business - we both have full time jobs in the public sector. we are a family who both lost their jobs in the recession last year and then tried to sell our flat but couldnt. so we had to rent it out, although thats the last thing in the world we wanted to do. so yes, we do rely on the rent to pay the mortgage because we have used all our savings to LIVE for the last two years.

i wish I hadnt bothered to ask for help. all youve done is made me cry. thanks.

There's a couple of points you need to realise:
Firstly, if you want to claim the moral high ground against your tenant as regards who is messing whom around you need to be beyond reproach. That means stepping up to your responsibilities - perhaps the tenant could have called the plumber themselves but when they didn't you should have instead of just shrugging, for example.

Secondly and most importantly, if you are a landlord then you are running a business whether you like it or not. You need to accept that and approach the rental of your property like the business that it is. This means a couple of things:

Sometimes you will get customers who are not great. This happens, deal with it.

You will face unexpected costs and expenses. Again, this happens and you need to deal with it.

You will sometimes get told things you don't like hearing. You need to face up to those as a business issue instead of taking it personally and going off for a good cry.

If you can't accept that then being a landlord is not for you.

PosterBoy77

I'm not quite sure why so many people are slating the OP. A landlord is quite within their rights to provide the number of an emergency plumber who sorts the problems on behalf of them. As long as the landlord pays all the costs of the emergency plumber, this is perfectly fine. The landlord is reposible for maintaining the property, but they can sub-contract that to anybody they see fit. If the landlord has informed the tenants that the procedure for resolving plumbing issues is to make an appointment with the emergency plumber, this is perfectly fine.

If the emergency plumber does not turn up or does not fix the problem, it is however the landlords problem to get the issue resolved.

theartfullodger

This sounds like we may have a "Professional" Tenant who knows all the rules, tricks and wheezes and an "otherwise" Landlord. If so, Oh dear.

Get help, quick..

Cheers!

Lodger

RobertoMoir

mikael wrote: »

The landlord is reposible for maintaining the property, but they can sub-contract that to anybody they see fit.

Which doesn't remove the responsibility from the LL.

If the landlord has informed the tenants that the procedure for resolving plumbing issues is to make an appointment with the emergency plumber, this is perfectly fine.

And if the tenant doesn't do this and keeps bleating then the simplest way to solve it is for the LL to make the appointment themselves. At the end of the day do they want to solve a problem or do they want to have an argument?

Regardless of who is "right" time might be spent better solving the actual problem, and this means the LL is beyond reproach should they be dealing with a 'professional tenant'.