Is landlord asking for too much info?

Out,_Vile_Jelly

clutton wrote: »

""Should any tenant/prospective tenant ask for proof I owned a property, had the agreement of the lender(if any) to let or had valid/relevant insurance or wanted to see safety checks of course I'd be happy to provide copies... but none has ever asked, in over 10 years...

at last we agree on something artfull...... i also have nev er been asked these questions ...

i think the way a LL handles a viewing is indictive to the tenant of their professionalism or otherwise.... i tell prospective tenants quite a lot about me and my business and they seem to value that.. so when i then ask them some questions it seems fairly reasonable....

I would assume that asking such questions would automatically label me as a difficult trouble-maker. LLs would surely far prefer to rent to people who didn't know their rights and who humbly complied with every request, respectfully tugging their forelock to their superiors.

I was asked for a photocopy of my passport for my current place- once I'd handed over a holding deposit I didn't like to kick up a fuss, as they have you over a barrel. I will be more assertive next time.

tbs624

mchale wrote: »

A nino makes tracing a lot easier

You sound like the Stasi. I have no doubt that all sorts of additional information would "make tracing a lot easier" but it does not follow that LLs should have access to that information from each & every one of their Ts.

If, as a LL, your tenant asked you for a copy of your bank statements, your mortgage statements, and a copy of your passport, NINO etc would you provide it to them? I suspect the answer would be "no".

This is data creep, pure and simple. NINOs were never intended as a form of ID

The vast majority of Ts pay their rent, look after their rented property and just get on with life.

If you have a troublesome T and need to enforce a judgement against them the court can order that particular T to provide certain information to facilitate that.

clutton_2

""LL/agency does not need to know your salary details"

ABSOLUTELY a LL needs proof of a tenant's income... for their benefit as much as for the LLS .. it is Pointless offering a tenancy to someone who simply does not earn enough to pay the rent.. as in a very short space of time, court summonses, court appearances, and bailiffs happen.. what is the point in all that upset and trauma to both parties ?


Banks dont give loans out without proof of income, neither do they offer mortgages without proof of income....

All those fiercely defending the right of tenants to privacy have clearly never had to try to get money from a bad tenant who has not paid rent, who has left damage behind, and who has gone AWOL.. such tenants sometimes dont even turn up for the court hearing.. and as these things are civil matters, the police wont go find them for you to appear... neither will the police drag them before the judge.....

i can see how upset some posters have become by this, but as i have said so many times on this forum, , sadly the small - the tiny - proportion of tenants who do behave like this spoil it for all the rest who are great tenants....

i will continue to use the www.landlordzone.co.uk tenancy application form to help me vet my prospective tenants.. those who do not wish to complete it are perfectly at liberty to approach another landlord for a home....

btw tbs - the NINO is not used for ID purposes - that is the remit of the driving license, or the passport, but as a future means of tracing someone for an attachment of earnings should they leave owing rent....

you also say "if your tenant asked you for a copy of your bank statements, your mortgage statements, and a copy of your passport, NINO etc would you provide it to them? I suspect the answer would be "no"."

can you explain what the rationale would be for a tenant to ask for these details... i really am trying to understand this from the tenants perspective...

i would have no problem with showing my passport for ID, i would have a problem showing my business bank account, as details of my other tenants appear on them, and thus DP issues arise, and i would not like to disclose my mortgage statement, as the tenant would then be party to my profit on the property (they could see the £amount i pay for my mortgage) and that is not their business..

i could ask my accountant i suppose to verify that my mortgage payments were up to date at the end of the last financial year.. but how would that help if the tenancy application was made many months after that .......

tbs624

clutton wrote: »

All those fiercely defending the right of tenants to privacy have clearly never had to try to get money from a bad tenant who has not paid rent, who has left damage behind, and who has gone AWOL.. such tenants sometimes dont even turn up for the court hearing.. and as these things are civil matters, the police wont go find them for you to appear... neither will the police drag them before the judge.....

You are making assumptions there, Clutton, have had my quota of people who challenge my view of humanity.

clutton wrote: »

btw tbs - the NINO is not used for ID purposes - that is the remit of the driving license, or the passport, but as a future means of tracing someone for an attachment of earnings should they leave owing rent....

?? Erm ,if you intend using it to trace someone then you *are* using it as form of ID regardless of which box you tick on any info-gathering form.

clutton wrote: »

you also say "if your tenant asked you for a copy of your bank statements, your mortgage statements, and a copy of your passport, NINO etc would you provide it to them? I suspect the answer would be "no"."

can you explain what the rationale would be for a tenant to ask for these details... i really am trying to understand this from the tenants perspective...

The rationale is that in all things tenancy there needs to be fairness -ie, if there is a break clause , it must be equitable for both parties and so on . You know as well as I do that if any term in a tenancy agreement advantages one party over the other then it is likely it will be held to be unenforceable.

I think we are both agreed that it's a minority of LLs and a minority of Ts who carp on the other party, but your argument seems to be that only the LL should have "protection" from the likelihood of the other party turning out to be a charlatan. So from a LL perspective it's:

"in addition to having a character reference, employer reference, evidence of pay,previous address, previous/current LL ref, 3rd party "credit check, utility bills, sight of DL I must see bank statements, have copy of NINO, PP and so on, on the off chance that you'll leave me out of pocket ( this is despite me having a deposit from you equivalent to 6weeks/2 months rent)"

The point I am making is that to balance this, the T, who will be coughing up a largish initial outlay ( 50 quid referencing, lets say £650 1st months rent, & £900/1300 deposit plus signing up for a commitment to pay for the full term, plus the costs of actually moving in & setting up contracts for broadband/sky or whatever, wants to have an indication of how reliable/financially sound you may be as the LL. ( They don't want refs from previous Ts - that one may be set up as a quid pro quo)

You may have a severe Jimmy Choo/holiday/flash car addiction that is stretching your finances,

You may be overgeared.

You may be illicitly stashing away your tenancy deposits in a non ring-fenced a/c and having a little dabble in the pot now and again. " I can put it back later, plenty of time- no-one needs to know"

On the off chance that you may go (financially) belly up before the tenancy has reached the conclusion of its initial FT, the T thinks it might also be a good idea if before she signed up s/he had sight of :

(a) your bank statements - are you regularly overdrawn? - are there membership subs to local casinos, debits for Mr Choo's fine shoes, lots of dining out and not enough corresponding income?
(b) your rent accounts for the whole of your property portfolio so the T knows that their rent is not likely to be used to prop up the mortgage repayments on the properties that have defaulting LHA claimants living in them, leaving this T vulnerable to an eviction
(c) credit card statements - just in case you are thousands in debt, struggling to meet your repair bills and your own very basic living costs
(d) your mortgage statements - evidence that you have to date* met your mortgage repayments ( *because that's a key point, it's only a snapshot), and so the T can check direct with the lender whether you have a BTL or CTL.
(e) your NINO, because if you do run off with the tenancy deposit and/or the rental property gets repo'd & the T kicked out , that will help the T trace you for necessary court action/ enforcement of judgement.
(f) your passport and/or DL ( photo ID) Both please, just to be sure....


It has to be a two way road.......:)

tbs624

Here you are guys - this potential T can offer another useful form of photo ID - a shotgun certificate

neverdespairgirl

clutton wrote: »

can you explain what the rationale would be for a tenant to ask for these details... i really am trying to understand this from the tenants perspective...

to show they are solvent, not about to be repossessed, aren't dodgy?

Pennylane

Fiddlestick wrote: »

I refuse to pay this money because there is absolutely no benefit to me from it.

If the LL wants to credit check me, HE can pay for it.

I paid to have my tenant credit checked because it was for my benefit. Wouldn't have thought of asking him to contribute.

Pennylane

tbs624 wrote: »

You are making assumptions there, Clutton, have had my quota of people who challenge my view of humanity.

?? Erm ,if you intend using it to trace someone then you *are* using it as form of ID regardless of which box you tick on any info-gathering form.

The rationale is that in all things tenancy there needs to be fairness -ie, if there is a break clause , it must be equitable for both parties and so on . You know as well as I do that if any term in a tenancy agreement advantages one party over the other then it is likely it will be held to be unenforceable.

I think we are both agreed that it's a minority of LLs and a minority of Ts who carp on the other party, but your argument seems to be that only the LL should have "protection" from the likelihood of the other party turning out to be a charlatan. So from a LL perspective it's:

"in addition to having a character reference, employer reference, evidence of pay,previous address, previous/current LL ref, 3rd party "credit check, utility bills, sight of DL I must see bank statements, have copy of NINO, PP and so on, on the off chance that you'll leave me out of pocket ( this is despite me having a deposit from you equivalent to 6weeks/2 months rent)"

The point I am making is that to balance this, the T, who will be coughing up a largish initial outlay ( 50 quid referencing, lets say £650 1st months rent, & £900/1300 deposit plus signing up for a commitment to pay for the full term, plus the costs of actually moving in & setting up contracts for broadband/sky or whatever, wants to have an indication of how reliable/financially sound you may be as the LL. ( They don't want refs from previous Ts - that one may be set up as a quid pro quo)

You may have a severe Jimmy Choo/holiday/flash car addiction that is stretching your finances,

You may be overgeared.

You may be illicitly stashing away your tenancy deposits in a non ring-fenced a/c and having a little dabble in the pot now and again. " I can put it back later, plenty of time- no-one needs to know"

On the off chance that you may go (financially) belly up before the tenancy has reached the conclusion of its initial FT, the T thinks it might also be a good idea if before she signed up s/he had sight of :

(a) your bank statements - are you regularly overdrawn? - are there membership subs to local casinos, debits for Mr Choo's fine shoes, lots of dining out and not enough corresponding income?
(b) your rent accounts for the whole of your property portfolio so the T knows that their rent is not likely to be used to prop up the mortgage repayments on the properties that have defaulting LHA claimants living in them, leaving this T vulnerable to an eviction
(c) credit card statements - just in case you are thousands in debt, struggling to meet your repair bills and your own very basic living costs
(d) your mortgage statements - evidence that you have to date* met your mortgage repayments ( *because that's a key point, it's only a snapshot), and so the T can check direct with the lender whether you have a BTL or CTL.
(e) your NINO, because if you do run off with the tenancy deposit and/or the rental property gets repo'd & the T kicked out , that will help the T trace you for necessary court action/ enforcement of judgement.
(f) your passport and/or DL ( photo ID) Both please, just to be sure....


It has to be a two way road.......

---

You saved the best bit till last!
While I was checking out my tenant I told him that if there was anything he wanted to ask us to please do so. He said he had already asked around locally and was more than happy to rent from us. You have to remember he had seen the property and liked it and the rent, the location, everything suited him.

I think he had looked at a few other places and they were either shabby or not in nice areas, or the rent was too high.

There's no mortgage on the property he's renting from us but I'd happily show him the Title Deeds if he so wished.

There are plenty of horror stories about dodgy landlords and dodgy tenants but if we all do things properly it should make life easier for everyone.

tbs624

Pennylane wrote: »

While I was checking out my tenant I told him that if there was anything he wanted to ask us to please do so. He said he had already asked around locally and was more than happy to rent from us. You have to remember he had seen the property and liked it and the rent, the location, everything suited him.

I think he had looked at a few other places and they were either shabby or not in nice areas, or the rent was too high.

There's no mortgage on the property he's renting from us but I'd happily show him the Title Deeds if he so wished.

But if the T *had* asked for the other info in my post would you have obliged?

Pennylane wrote: »

There are plenty of horror stories about dodgy landlords and dodgy tenants but if we all do things properly it should make life easier for everyone.

As long as it's not just one party ( or representative of) deciding what the definition of proper is, and one party assuming that the same level of intrusiveness shouldn't apply to both sides........:)

clutton_2

could someone provide me with a similar scenario in which a provider of a product/service in any other industry might be legitimately asked to show their business accounts and mortgage/business loan statements to a new customer ?