keeping tropical and cold water fish.

Puzzledbubbles

Froglet wrote: »

I do hope you are doing fishless cycling of the tank?If you need help just shout.

Hi Froglet

We are currently in stage one All set up and got the pump going, heater is gradually bringing us up to temp (26 degrees) and the light has been on for a little while.

We are adding the chemicles as prescribed and are planning on adding live plants next weekend.

Don't suppose you know if we are best to add plants then fish, or fish then plants?

Or maybe both togehter?

We are planning on getting Neons, Pencil fish, Catfish and dwarf loaches (from memory) so not sure which ones to put in first (but know that the catfish and dwarf loaches need to be in about 5 -6 months time - we definately dont want a fishy massacre on our hands!!!

Thanks for your help

Puzzled x

Froglet

All the info you could need is here http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/showthread.php?t=64350

and if you need more advice,register and there will be plenty of willing help available.Though i have kept fish for over 20 years there are still things to learn,and ideas change along the way as well.

The chemicals you mention are ok,IF they are the right ones.Get it right first off and you will have happy healthy fish.Sounds like you are in no rush,that is the secret.Too many people can't wait to add fish and that is when they suffer as the filter is not mature enough to cope with their waste.

Always add plants well before fish so they can get established.They also help with the quality of the water as they will feed on excess nitrates.

ailuro2

the plants won't like the high levels of ammonia you will have during fishless cycling.

I'd be very wary of adding any type of catfish - if they have long whiskers when they are grown you'll end up with one fish in your tank - a very chubby catfish.;)
The loaches too would leave me asking more questions - many loaches grow to be tankbusters. Google is again your friend.;)

Be very very careful where you buy your plants from, and give them a bleach dip before you add them to your tank to get rid of any nasties. Search through the plants by hand to find snail eggs. Once you have snails in a tank (normally the eggs come in hidden in plants) they are hard to get rid of without treating the tank with chemicals that kill off the nitrosomonas/nitrobacter ( the healthy bacteria you need to grow to have a healthy tank)

Please google fishless cycling, many fish shops still tell first timers to leave the water for a day / a week to come up to temperature, stabilise the ph, but really that just brings them more business as the first tank inhabitants are likely to die off.

Have fun, fishkeeping is a great hobby if you do it 'well' from the start. The average fishkeeper lasts a year in the hobby - but then those are the ones that don't do fishless cycling and who forge ahead regardless.

gizmodo_2

Even being really really careful I think it's hard to keep snails out of a planted tank. Think I've probably mentioned this before but a few snail eaters were my saviour when I had a planted tank. I got botia striata, they are bottom feeders and if memory serves me correctly they grow to about 10cm max. So perhaps a better choice of loach? They are really nice looking fish too. Mine have been very hardy, they were the first fish I put in my tank (after a fishless cycle) and I still have them today (must be 4 or 5 years on now). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botia_striata

Froglet

"the plants won't like the high levels of ammonia you will have during fishless cycling."

good point,aluro i hadn't thought of that! What about sorting the snails out though,wouldn't the ammonia help there?

You are right,gizmodo they are an absolute nightmare.Took me nigh on 2 years of trying everything before i got clown loach but you must have a big tank or they will be unhappy.

Puzzledbubbles

First off, thanks for all of the help, ive been spending a fair while reading the web and a lot of what your saying is making me think that we are on the way to knowing what we are doing :T

gizmodo wrote: »

Even being really really careful I think it's hard to keep snails out of a planted tank. Think I've probably mentioned this before but a few snail eaters were my saviour when I had a planted tank. I got botia striata, they are bottom feeders and if memory serves me correctly they grow to about 10cm max. So perhaps a better choice of loach? They are really nice looking fish too. Mine have been very hardy, they were the first fish I put in my tank (after a fishless cycle) and I still have them today (must be 4 or 5 years on now). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botia_striata

We picked up 5 plants today and washed and planted them in the tank, i didnt see any snail eggs, but we will look out for them!!!

We looked at the Botia striata but as the catfish is our must have we thought that they would not get on too well together?

ailuro2 wrote: »

the plants won't like the high levels of ammonia you will have during fishless cycling.

I'd be very wary of adding any type of catfish - if they have long whiskers when they are grown you'll end up with one fish in your tank - a very chubby catfish.;)
The loaches too would leave me asking more questions - many loaches grow to be tankbusters. Google is again your friend.;)

Have fun, fishkeeping is a great hobby if you do it 'well' from the start. The average fishkeeper lasts a year in the hobby - but then those are the ones that don't do fishless cycling and who forge ahead regardless.

Thanks I will pop a list of all of the fish we have found (and what ive dug up on them below so your opinon on sizes and things would be most welcome!

We really want to do this right and have been thinking about getting a tank for around 8 months so its not a snappy decision for us We are planning on keeping the tank for "forever" and so want nice happy fish so they live longer and stay healthy

Froglet wrote: »

All the info you could need is here http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/showthread.php?t=64350

and if you need more advice,register and there will be plenty of willing help available.Though i have kept fish for over 20 years there are still things to learn,and ideas change along the way as well.

The chemicals you mention are ok,IF they are the right ones.Get it right first off and you will have happy healthy fish.Sounds like you are in no rush,that is the secret.Too many people can't wait to add fish and that is when they suffer as the filter is not mature enough to cope with their waste.

Always add plants well before fish so they can get established.They also help with the quality of the water as they will feed on excess nitrates.

Thanks for the link, i am sure i can spend a few hours reading over there I must admit, MSE is the only forum that ive managed to maintain, purely becuase it has everything.

Although this is probably a more MSE option than the magazine subscription

Thank you again for all of your help!!!!!

Puzzledbubbles

Me again

As promised the list of species we have gathered so far

I have not put them in any particular order but hopefully you will be able to advise us on if these would work well together.

Assuming each of these fish grow to the maximum size we would have 59 cm of fish in our 60 litre tank.

Otocinclus cat fish - x 1 or 2
Middle to top
Fresh green vegetables
Algae tablets?
4,5cm max 9cm

Neon Tetras x 6 (small groups first)
Middle to top
Brine shrimp occasionally
2cm max 12cm

Pencil Fish x 3
Top
Brine Shrimp
Need floating or tall plants
6cm each max 18cm

Dwarf Loaches x 5
Bottom to middle
Catfish pellets
6cm each max 30cm

Gingham_Ribbon

Puzzledbubbles wrote: »

Me again

As promised the list of species we have gathered so far

I have not put them in any particular order but hopefully you will be able to advise us on if these would work well together.

Assuming each of these fish grow to the maximum size we would have 59 cm of fish in our 60 litre tank.

Otocinclus cat fish - x 1 or 2
Middle to top
Fresh green vegetables
Algae tablets?
4,5cm max 9cm

Neon Tetras x 6 (small groups first)
Middle to top
Brine shrimp occasionally
2cm max 12cm

Pencil Fish x 3
Top
Brine Shrimp
Need floating or tall plants
6cm each max 18cm

Dwarf Loaches x 5
Bottom to middle
Catfish pellets
6cm each max 30cm

Hiya

Ottos as shoaling fish and extremely sensitive, so I'd advise waiting until your tank has been running a year or so before you consider them. If they don't have fat, round bellies, don't touch them.

When you do go for it, you'll need at least 6 and you'll need to keep an eye on them in the LFS for a few weeks as they don't travel well and many die as a result. You'd also have to be prepared to do water changes twice a week at least as the nitrate has to stay below 10.

Dwarf loaches should be in groups of at least 6 too.

Pencil fish are shoalers. 6 minimum here too.

Neons are shoalers too. 6 is bare minimum.

You've picked gorgeous fish, but tricky. They all do well in soft acidic water, which is good if that's what you have. You will need to know this before you buy any fish. An API test kit will have everything you need.

Unfortunately, a 60l tank cannot house all these fish. You're looking at somewhere around 24" of fish, as you rightly state.

6" for the neons
9" for the otos
15" for the loaches
12"+ for the pencil fish = 42"

Without knowing what kind of water you have, I can't advise fully, but if it's soft and acidic as these fish might suggest, I'd go for:

8 neons
1 bristlenose (a hardier and better starter fish than the otos)
and a 'centrepiece' fish like a siamese fighter that is happy without a mate and won't be pestered, or pester, the shoal.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

hey guys im sorry havent been in here been busy and had a tank catastrophy.

proud of the advice given in here thanks all that is helping. i will hit the button but not right now as i only have a few mins.

first off my 4ft tank developed a leak not on the damaged side either, and considdering it has a repair already doing another is pointless. so had to get another tank.
so i have a juwel vision 450 5ft 2ft 2ft bowfront now and thanks to searching gumtree had a very good deal on it especially with what equipment stuff that came with it.

Froglet

Sounds great,your fish will be very happy.I have had my juwel tank now for 11 years and had no problems thankfully.The original filter,heater and lights have all ben replaced but at least the tank seems to have been made well.