Free solar panel discussion

Cardew

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Hello docn, Do you have any data you could post on the actual generation you have got, the actual fit payments received, the cost and spec of your system, the predicted vs actual generation and return and other such stuff? I'm sure many here would find it interesting. I'm interested to see if the 'standard' method of assessment the salespeople use is very accurate or not. Appreciate any help you could give - hard numbers from those with fits are hard to come by. Thanks.

On another point, I thought the fit payments were totally independent of your supplier (hence they can't force you onto a different tariff if correct). Does your documentation confirm what I think? Agree- whoever pays the fit isn't losing out at all, they are probably gaining since the amount passed on to customers in general will be the fits they pay out, plus an uplift for admin and an element of profit.

There are several threads on Solar PV in the 'green' section of MSE where there is much more information. Including a couple of people who have had solar PV for a couple of years(and don't get FIT) and posted their annual output.

Any MCS installer can give you a pretty accurate prediction of output. That depends on your location in UK and orientation and pitch of your roof, inverter etc. So what docn gets is no indication of what you will get.

However most installations will get between 800kWh and 900kWh a year per 1kWp installed. Generally the further South you live the higher the output.

The rate of FIT is 41.3p per kWh generated. You get 3p for each kWh you export - and you can elect for this to be 50% of the generated output. Plus you get the value of whatever electricity you use in the house.

The FIT is paid from a central kitty administered by the Regulator ofgem; all electricity users contribute to that kitty. So it makes no difference to an electricity company how many people they pay FITs. If company A pay out £1 million in FITs they draw that from the kitty and if company B pay out £2 million they draw that from the kitty.

hansi

Boo hoo, my roof isn't big enough so Home Sun tell me:mad:

gehngus_2

Hi again & thanks for the info.

wouldn't it make more sense if the gov made available a loan where the grant pays the loan off automatically?

or does one arrange it oneself .. go to the bank & say "i want £14k for this gear and the gov guarantee to pay for it?"

and if so. what would happen if the house was sold? would you pay it off or somehow link it to the house?

Gizmosmum_2

gehngus wrote: »

Hi again & thanks for the info.

wouldn't it make more sense if the gov made available a loan where the grant pays the loan off automatically?

or does one arrange it oneself .. go to the bank & say "i want £14k for this gear and the gov guarantee to pay for it?"

and if so. what would happen if the house was sold? would you pay it off or somehow link it to the house?

Watch this space Green Infrastructure Bank is allegedly on the way - unless it's scrapped on 20th October The theory is that you make the repayments from the savings you make. Mind you it'll take a bit of time to set up!

Pincher

Gizmosmum wrote: »

Watch this space Green Infrastructure Bank is allegedly on the way - unless it's scrapped on 20th October The theory is that you make the repayments from the savings you make. Mind you it'll take a bit of time to set up!

That really takes the biscuit.

So the householders with south facing roofs are going to clean up. A souther borrows £15k, and gets £1,500 a year. If I wanted to get £1,500 a year, I would have to put up roughly twice the PV panels on my East-West roof, but I have to borrow say, £25k. That's nuts.

There must be millions of households disadvantaged by this.
Since commercial operations are allowed into what should have been a domestic subsidy, I demand that I should be allowed to set up a company that puts up PV panels in Cornwall. We buy up exhausted open cast tin mines, and get regional developement grants for bringing jobs into Cornwall. Any household in the UK without a south facing roof will be able to hire us to put up 4kWp worth of PV panels.

In Cornwall, we get more sun, so we need fewer panels to achieve 4kwp. Also, we set them up on the ground, so no scaffolding to get up on the roof, and easy to maintain. With economy of scale, I expect we could do it for £8k per household, instead of £15k for 4kWp.

All households without south facing roofs should be eligible for FIT in this manner. Obviously we export into the National Grid, unless we can achieve some sort of vertical integration with local industry.
Obviously the householder doesn't get to enjoy free electricity, but they get the FIT, minus my cut.

If they can borrow the £8k from Green Infrastructure Bank, at say 2.5%, so they don't actually have to put down any cash, the annual interest is £200, capital repayment of the £8k loan can be spread over 25 years, with reducing interest, so lets say £250 repayment a year.

£1,500 of FIT for 4kWp, I get £500, the houholder gets £1,000, from which he pays £250 to the Green Infrastructure Bank, so he gets £750 a year, for 25 years, without putting down any cash!
And we can all laugh at the people with south facing roofs.

Guess how many applicants I will have? None.
Because the government somehow regard PV panels on people's roofs to be worthy, but a panel put up by a commcercial organisation somewhere more cost effective is not.
And yet commercial companies like Isis are profiteering from subsidy money with impunity any way.

Jon_Tiffany

Pincher wrote: »

That really takes the biscuit.

So the householders with south facing roofs are going to clean up. A souther borrows £15k, and gets £1,500 a year. If I wanted to get £1,500 a year, I would have to put up roughly twice the PV panels on my East-West roof, but I have to borrow say, £25k. That's nuts.

There must be millions of households disadvantaged by this.
Since commercial operations are allowed into what should have been a domestic subsidy, I demand that I should be allowed to set up a company that puts up PV panels in Cornwall. We buy up exhausted open cast tin mines, and get regional developement grants for bringing jobs into Cornwall. Any household in the UK without a south facing roof will be able to hire us to put up 4kWp worth of PV panels.

In Cornwall, we get more sun, so we need fewer panels to achieve 4kwp. Also, we set them up on the ground, so no scaffolding to get up on the roof, and easy to maintain. With economy of scale, I expect we could do it for £8k per household, instead of £15k for 4kWp.

All households without south facing roofs should be eligible for FIT in this manner. Obviously we export into the National Grid, unless we can achieve some sort of vertical integration with local industry.
Obviously the householder doesn't get to enjoy free electricity, but they get the FIT, minus my cut.

If they can borrow the £8k from Green Infrastructure Bank, at say 2.5%, so they don't actually have to put down any cash, the annual interest is £200, capital repayment of the £8k loan can be spread over 25 years, with reducing interest, so lets say £250 repayment a year.

£1,500 of FIT for 4kWp, I get £500, the houholder gets £1,000, from which he pays £250 to the Green Infrastructure Bank, so he gets £750 a year, for 25 years, without putting down any cash!
And we can all laugh at the people with south facing roofs.

Guess how many applicants I will have? None.
Because the government somehow regard PV panels on people's roofs to be worthy, but a panel put up by a commcercial organisation somewhere more cost effective is not.
And yet commercial companies like Isis are profiteering from subsidy money with impunity any way.

Pincher, the FITs allow up to a 5MW PV system, there is no reason why your plan wouldn't work. Just buy the land, let the local community take ownership and give them a share of the returns.

There seems to be a case of sour grapes here.

Cardew

Jon_Tiffany wrote: »

There seems to be a case of sour grapes here.

Sour Grapes? Surely it is the principle that is wrong.

Firstly PV panels can only be fitted if you are an owner with a large enough South facing roof. That excludes tenants, flat owners, any house with a roof having the wrong orientation , pitch, size or shaded. So how many properties meet the criteria for PV panels? 10%? 20%?

Secondly we have a system where we pay owners over 40 pence a kWh for a product that sells typically for less than 10 pence a kWh – surely the most inefficient and costly form of electricity generation available.

Thirdly, those who cannot have PV panels(the majority) have no option but to contribute to the fund subsidising those with PV panels(the minority). To add insult to injury, we now have loads of firms like ASG etc who have found a loophole in the regulations and are now being subsidised and taking their slice of the funds we pay.

Someone in another thread attempted to draw an analogy with tax payers funding social care etc. At least with Tax the principle is to help the less well off. Here we have the reverse – electricity prices to increase for everyone, to pay subsidies to home owners who can afford £15,000 or so, or to swell the profits of firms.

Gizmosmum_2

Pincher - what you're talking about is a solar field and there's quite a few people already on the case with this sort of thing, particularly in disused checmical plants where the land can't be used for anywhere else. Spain and france already have quite a few of these that are working really effectively.

Lucky you being in Cornwall with all the sun! What about us poor sods living in the North? Mind you even living in the North with a West facing roof I'm surprised at how much the FiT can pay out so at least we get something.

I suspect that the ISIS/ASG/Homesun argument will be sorted in the spending review, we'll have to wait and see.

Cardew - tenants can benefit, I'll be putting pv on my tenants roofs in the next 12 - 18 months and many social housing providers are doing the same. Ok it's only suitable for some but maybe it's better than none!

Cardew

Gizmosmum wrote: »

Cardew - tenants can benefit, I'll be putting pv on my tenants roofs in the next 12 - 18 months and many social housing providers are doing the same. Ok it's only suitable for some but maybe it's better than none!

You are going to put PV on your tenant's roof, and maintain the system and let them have the FITs?

Or

Do an ASG?

If the former, the Pope on his visit could start the process of beatification!!

Gizmosmum_2

Cardew wrote: »

You are going to put PV on your tenant's roof, and maintain the system and let them have the FITs?

Or

Do an ASG?

If the former, the Pope on his visit could start the process of beatification!!

Now there's a thought