Free solar panel discussion

John_Pierpoint

quoia wrote: »

FORGET YOUR ROOF - It's your WINDOWS I'm after

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1301762/New-technology-turn-house-window-Britain-solar-panel.html

New technology that could turn every house window in Britain into a solar panel
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'A thin film deposition system with nano-particle source will be designed and constructed in collaboration with the University of Leicester for the fabrication of prototype cells based on this design.
'EnSol's next generation cell technology has tremendous potential for industrial scale, low environmental impact, cost effective production via standard 'spray on' techniques.

I already have double glazing with a thin film metal coating on the inside of the outside pane. It reflects infra red heat back into the room.

Presumably I cannot have a thin film to generate electricity and a thin film to reflect infra red heat. Unless we are talking about roof light type windows they won't be sloping at a suitable angle relative to the sun.

This technology could be used for glass clad architectural statement office blocks - but anything that detracts from the appearance of the view, through a domestic window, will not be acceptable.

http://guardian-europe.com/web/en/guardian_global/content/products/products-coated_glass-low_emissivity_glass-climaguard_n.html

[No I don't have the fancy argon filled sealed units - I retro fitted my 1960's wooden windows four years ago with the air filled variety, not the optimal solution but at least it stops the condensation problem]

eidolona

albyota wrote: »

A box of cans aint gonna stop the lights going out in 6 or 7 years, but you can carry on!!, people are fitting PV panels on their rooves, they are even coming to a local authority building near you soon.

This 'bone head' is therefore going to call in the wolves.........:wall:

Dear Mr Bone Head (the name seems to have stuck)

Let me help you with a new perspective on this panel scheme. Its funny how it is possible to come to totally different conclusions about a given thing when you view it from different perspectives. A while ago and from the vantage point of earth, it was the consensus that the earth was the centre of the universe. All observations from this perspective indicated that this was so. Then along came Galileo who stood back and from a different perspective said that the earth was a small insignificant plant going round an insignificant sun in an insignificant galaxy. He was attacked by the wolves. But Galileo was right!

From your perspective sir (or may I call you Mr Bonehead?) it looks as though the PV Panel scheme is a good one. Let's call your perspective an individual or selfish perspective. From your point of view, you are going to save some Co2 and be rewarded for loaning out your roof into the bargain.

Can I invite you to step back a few paces and look at the situation in the round. Let's call it an unselfsh and more objective perspective. You will have your panels installed for free and be smugly receiving your FITS, paid for by people who don't have the panels on their roof. The people who don't have the panels, but who are paying for your panels in their increased electricity charges, will have to go out to work to earn the cash to pay you your FITS. Now, the work they do to earn the cash to pay for your FITS will release Co2! This Co2 will offset the Co2 you will be saving by having the panels on your roof. You with me? The upshot is that a lot of people like you will be making money over 25 years on the backs of those who don't have the panels, whilst hoping those other people won't notice. Its a money making scheme, a scam which should be killed off before it grows. You are relying on the deep unconsciousness of the masses to get away with it. Well, I'm gonna tel 'em!!!

Must go now because I have to work to earn the cash to pay for your FITS. You take care. Will be back later with more news on Goldilocks and some wolves. Its gonna be fun (well not a lot for you I must admit)
Eidolona

nick7_2

am looking into getting a pv solar system.at this moment in time we set a lot of our appliances to go off at night as we get way cheaper electricity.
Could anyone clarify what would happen if you get the solar panels and start heating up hotwater in the day/dishwashes/tumbledryer etc,instead of at night.
When a cloudy/rainy day,or even part day occurs do you have to change back your energy usage to night time so as not to use expensive daytime electicity from your supplier?or is your production of solar energy averaged out somehow with what you use.
Sorry,what im trying to say is ,does your day usage keep flipping back and forth from free energy if its sunny ,to taking expensive energy from supplier when clouds come over.
thanks for your help

furndire

nick7 wrote: »

When a cloudy/rainy day,or even part day occurs do you have to change back your energy usage to night time so as not to use expensive daytime electicity from your supplier?or is your production of solar energy averaged out somehow with what you use.
Sorry,what im trying to say is ,does your day usage keep flipping back and forth from free energy if its sunny ,to taking expensive energy from supplier when clouds come over.
thanks for your help

No, its not averaged out, if its cloudy the energy produced drops, and you are then using some - minus the amount you are producing - from the grid - so I suppose you are still on a variable cost electricty.
All boils down to you are not storing any.
This is why some talk about storing some in batteries.
Hope this makes sense.

For example, yesterday was a blazing day here for sunlight. I used my washer a couple of times, and then turned on the dishwasher (not both together, and because the monitor was between 2000 & 4000 I will have taken very little off the grid, but I will have taken some, as we have fridges & a freezer, plus other stuff we can't take off standby running all the time.
We produced 18 units of leccy. Regardless of the fact we will have used a lot (most) of it, we will get paid 41.3p for every unit, and because SES deem that we will have exported half of it, we will get an extra 3p (44.3p) for half (9) of them.
If you are having the free panels fitted, you do not get this payment.

You really need to be at home all day to benefit properly from the free panels, as it is pot luck if your timer's on appliances hit pit producing times, but your fridge and standby stuff will be using what you are producing all the time (free).


As I said previously, its the Feed in Tarrif which made it worth while for me to invest my very small pension pot (less the tax on it) in the panels - if I hadn't had that, I would have gone for the free ones.
??Just thinking aloud, especially in winter, its probably still a good idea to run heavy using appliances at night on the cheaper electric - depends on what day tarriff you have as well, as the free electric will bring down the cost of the day time use (stuff that is permanently on) - ??? I don't know if that makes sense

Cardew

nick7 wrote: »

am looking into getting a pv solar system.at this moment in time we set a lot of our appliances to go off at night as we get way cheaper electricity.
Could anyone clarify what would happen if you get the solar panels and start heating up hotwater in the day/dishwashes/tumbledryer etc,instead of at night.
When a cloudy/rainy day,or even part day occurs do you have to change back your energy usage to night time so as not to use expensive daytime electicity from your supplier?or is your production of solar energy averaged out somehow with what you use.
Sorry,what im trying to say is ,does your day usage keep flipping back and forth from free energy if its sunny ,to taking expensive energy from supplier when clouds come over.
thanks for your help

It sounds as if you have Economy 7?

It will always be a problem trying to 'match'(or maximise) your household consumption with the output from your panels - even with a 'normal' 24/7 tariff.

With Economy 7 you have even more of a dilemma. To give an example:

You might switch on the immersion heater during the period when the panels are producing max power. If it uses, say, 3kWh it would not be advantageous unless about 2kWh was provided by the panels - otherwise it would be cheaper to use the immersion heater at night on cheap rate*
*Depending on your tariff.

I suspect over a year it will be difficult to increase the utilization of 'free' electricity by more than a few percent over a normal pattern of usage.

nick7_2

Thanks guys,
yes i am on E7{live in small village no mains gas and electric storage heaters)with the night rate bring about 4p and day 12 ish.
just wondering if solar its still viable for myself,when you factor in the in house savings portion will be lower?

nick7_2

sorry being ,not bring:)

beedydad

jellyhead wrote: »

If people ask for a bigger cut the company can just say no, and move on to the next person who wants free electricity. There won't be any shortage of people willing to take the deal as it is. Yes, the company will make more than I do if I'm accepted, but so what, I'm still getting something for nothing.

That is the problem. These initial companies have set out the concept, to their own advantage - dressing up that you will "do all right from free energy" - so they get away with making 90% of the available income and you are happy!!???

Yes people are leamings at times and think they are getting a good deal when the comany is getting it all their own way. Its a question of balance and it really is going the companies way.

In other product market - forces makes the adjustment in pricing - that is what i would like to see here. Yes peeps can walk away but as I said most are leamings and easy prey!!

Your last little statement "i'm still getting something for nothing" is why they are going to roll you over and laugh the way to the bank while you still say in your mind "i'm still getting something for nothing" say after me "i'm still getting something for nothing"!!!!!!!

Regards

nick7_2

Hi again,
Does anybody know if i do go down the pv solar route,will my energy company be able to force me on to a less competative tariff from themselves to compensate for having to buy electricity back from myself at 41p.
or will i still get a full choice,for eg to stay on E7 as we dont have gas central heating?
Thanks in advance

furndire

nick7 wrote: »

Hi again,
Does anybody know if i do go down the pv solar route,will my energy company be able to force me on to a less competative tariff from themselves to compensate for having to buy electricity back from myself at 41p.
or will i still get a full choice,for eg to stay on E7 as we dont have gas central heating?
Thanks in advance

Just ask them if they dictate which tariff you use. This was whySarah from ASG was an invaluable asset on here.

With 2 proviso's (? correct word?)
1, if you want to opt out by selling your house,
2, manage to afford the panels later, and can buy out

I really don't understand the attitude of people who are really knocking these companies. If you can't afford to pay for panels, what are you going to do with your roof space - its there, use it and get something from it maybe be only a small amount, but it is something. We're already stuffed by the Utility companies by having to pay them money daily to rent a meter for them to put gas/electric through so that we can pay them whatever they can squeeze out of us without too much of a fuss being kicked up (British Gas profits up how much over the last winter)