Free solar panel discussion

Cardew

digitaltoast wrote: »

...Let's start with your outright lie that you can generate more than 100% of kWp rated capacity in Cornwall...

Outright lie!! rather than "in my opinion you are mistaken"? Care to retract that yet?

Indeed even the link you gave indicated that the output of any panel could be up to 10% more than the declared rating.

In any case the maximum kW output is acedemic for most purposes as it is only achieved for a short period. It is the kWh output that is the important factor.

As it happens I tend to lean toward your solar sceptic views for both the 'free' ASG type schemes and the rewards on offer for a self financing scheme.

I suspect most people will be hard pushed to save £100 a year from the ASG type scheme; and personally I think that is not a particularly good deal.

The 'self financing' schemes will doubtless eventually return a profit; but how long is 'eventually'?

Obviously a crucial factor is cost of installation and there is plenty of evidence that the MCS cartel are holding us to ransom - not surprising with people clamouring to have a system fitted and parts in short supply.

Cost of borrowing/loss of compounded interest if purchased with savings is another huge factor.

Future inflation rates, interest rates are also unknown.

It seems to me that people just ignore any future maintenance costs - which could have a big impact on the return on investment.

In particular maintenance includes the requirement to clean panels of bird droppings/grime etc. I suppose that largely depends on your location, but if rain did the trick, all I can say that everyone I know with a glass conservatory roof has to clean them. Clambering about a roof is not something I fancy.

Nobody can accurately work out how long it will take to start earning money on a PV system as there are too many unknowns. However I haven't seen any convincing arguments for a period of less than 12 years.

samba

I'm not a financial whizz, but it seems to me that if I put £12000 in a savings account with 4% interest, I would have at least doubled my money after 25 years. I realise that there are things such as tax and depreciation to consider, but these solar panel schemes don't look like a very good investment to me.

The only way I would do it would be if the government were to give me an interest free loan to do it - then it would be money for nothing

digitaltoast

Cardew wrote: »

Outright lie!! rather than "in my opinion you are mistaken"? Care to retract that yet?

Sure, if someone can post me a picture to prove I'm wrong.
The maximum kWp is a laboratory rating of an "ideal world" situation at 35 degrees from the equator. It says if you are NEARER the equator than 35 degrees (Morocco, Tunisia, Cyprus) then you MAY be able to get over 100%. In that Cornwall is at 50 degrees, another 15 degrees north, I'd really really like to see a photo of the monitor of a 4kWp unit generating more than that in the UK.

As I say, I've visited showcase homes in Reading, Worcester and the Centre for Alternative Technology in Wales, all in the summer, and not one of them showed a peak generation of anything more than a quarter of peak capacity. The CAT one is a particularly interesting one to visit.

Ask them how much their roof cost, and how much it has generated over the last 13 years.

In fact, as no-one has taken up my fact challenge, let me show you some pictures from the £95,000 showcase roof of the Centre for Alternative Technology, from the middle of June 2008, at mid-day.
That's the middle of the day, near the middle of the summer.

Here's the roof:



Here's the spec:


So, I though it would only be fair to go and take a look when the sun was shining, and I found another display panel, and here's what the roof was producing at 2pm:


So, that's the showcase 12.5kW roof in the place which wants you to go solar, generating 835 watts at 2pm: 15 times under its capacity.

EDIT: CAT tell me that this was only from one inverter, but they've now deleted their post.

PS - that "total generated" figure is not an annual figure, (60p/day = £948 for half a year?!), I was told to ignore that, so I don't know what those figure really are, but the "generated" figures were, I was told, correct.

I think, at this point, people seem to have made their minds up one way or the other. I've posted my pic proof, no-one has posted theirs. I've got a couple of busy days, so don't think I'm bottling it if I don't reply.
But I'll keep a look out for any pics that prove me wrong.

And I'll bookmark this thread in Calendar to look at in 5 years, see how it's all going...

Cardew

So you are presumably saying that seejayess in North Nottinghamshire stating he is getting 3.1kW from his 3.3kWp system and yakky58 in Hampshire getting 2.156kW from his 2.05kW system are (to use your words) telling 'outright lies'.

Do you not believe that the annual generated output of panels is between 750kWh to 950kWh per 1kWp? That ASG state that the minimum output from their 3.3kWp system is 2,800kWh pa(848kWh per 1kWp) is incorrect

quoia

PK49 wrote: »

Ref Quote by Jon Tiffany:-

"Or go for the offer where one of the other companies (I cant remeber which) gives you the option to buy the panels in future on some sort of decreasing price."

This sounds an interesting compromise - need more info.

As I posted a few days ago on the "OTHER" thread (definitely also worth a read)

....

quoia wrote: »

Just an update - I've been reading some of the info on https://www.homesun.com and there IS something different about their terms regarding the installation as opposed to ASG or ISIS Solar ... (unless I missed this in the small print or discussions so far)

... it seems to offer the "best of both worlds" to some degree.

Firstly, if your roof doesn't fit the "totally free specifications" then there is an option to "buy" a smaller system for just £500 with a £5 per month charge for "Solar Care"
This means that you still may be able to get a system even if rejected by ASG or ISIS

BUT that wasn't what caught my eye - the "best of both worlds" ?

If you qualify for a free system it is all but the same as the others - 25 years - all costs repairs maintenance etc. covered - you get as much of the free electricity that you can use and they get the FITs ..... BUT.....

... once it is installed and running if you want to change your mind - in as much as you wished you had bought the system yourself and were getting the FITs yourself (perhaps 5 years after installation your great-aunt Bessie has left you £10,000 in her will) YOU CAN BUY YOURSELF OUT OF THE CONTRACT AND THE ENTIRE PV SYSTEM IS YOURS.

You then start claiming the FIT's and 3p Export Tariff for yourself

as it says on their website in FAQs



How can HomeSun afford to reduce the cost of solar so dramatically?
In April 2010, Government introduced new laws requiring energy companies to pay for the renewable power generated by homes. These are called Feed-in Tariffs (or FiTs). It’s all part of the drive to reduce carbon emissions in the UK – a staggering 27% of which are produced from homes. With FiTs an average home could save/earn around £1k per year (look under ‘FiTs’ and Buy Solar on the site to find out more). Over 25 years, the homeowner could earn 5%-8% return. Fantastic but the homeowner still has to find the £11k upfront cost of a solar system, and be in it for the long, long term. The way HomeSun’s business works is that we fund the solar installation. Homeowners gets free electricity from the sun instantly and starts reducing their electricity bills; HomeSun receives the FiTs to recoup its investment and make a sustainable profit. If at any point, the homeowner wants to buy out of the contract and take the FiT contract, they can – there are no penalties, it’s just a straight line depreciation from day 1 to the end of the contract. Simple. We think that makes a great partnership.

"A straight line depreciation from day 1" ?
So if it costs £11,000 to install and in 25 years there are 9130 days then the opt out cost gets cheaper by £1.20 every day - about £8.50 per week, about £36.67 per month or £440 each year.
Not bad I suppose - allows you to swap your options any time in the 25 year period or perhaps someone who would like to buy your house but want's the FITs etc for themselves. Might make selling easier if there were difficulties.

michaelwr

Hi,
I got to about page 5 with various people asking what the savings so apologies if this has been posted since.

Use this link to work out how much you will get, supposedly the feedin tariff increases so is protected from inflation and guaranteed for 25years.

www energysavingtrust co uk

Generate-your-own-energy/Cashback-Calculator

Next use this link to show the true crossover i.e. against what your £10k would have made in the bank. For me this shows a 10year payback then it is a nice pension earner.

www reuk co uk

REUK-Feed-In-Tariff-Calculator

I think if you have £10k spare it is a no brainer, nice guaranteed tax free return for 25years. If your postitive thinking you may also say it isn't money down the drain as the panel must put the houses resale value up knowing the feed in tariff is transferable and they buyer will receive the income.

furndire

I feel I have to join in here, we have 22 180 sharp panels, during the daytime, we have hit 4390w at the highest - albeit for a very short while, but it does happen. Can't help but check reading when the sun is blazing. Since 28 June, when we had them installed, we have generated almost 600 kw, (between 13 and 14 kw a day) and this is in Nth Lincs. As I have previously said, our roof is considerably steeper than the optimum, and we are facing slightly off south.
I was one of the people who was disappointed because although there was still daylight, the panels were not producing - however at 10 am this morning they were on 1500 w.
At the moment, it is generating 335w at 6.30 pm.

Pincher

Question One:

How much electricity can a family of four produce on an exercycle?
Assuming two adults and two children, each spending 30 minutes a day on the exercycle.

Question Two:

How much does it cost to install an exercycle, battery, inverter nad export capable meter?

Question Three:

Why can't we get FIT (;)) for such a system, which has health benefits, on top of producing green energy?

Question Four:

If a gym was to introduce electricity generating exercise equipment, do they get the FIT? If the reason for rejection is that it is a commercial for profit operation, then surely the ASG and Isis scheme is guilty of exactly that.

Cardew

furndire wrote: »

I feel I have to join in here, we have 22 180 sharp panels, during the daytime, we have hit 4390w at the highest - albeit for a very short while, but it does happen.

So you have achieved 4.39kW from a 3.96kWp system(22 x 180Wp)

Seems you are yet another telling 'outright lies';) according to digitaltoast.

furndire

Cardew, I am not in the habit of telling lies, we found it hard to believe as well. Very offended by your posting. If I knew how, I would certainly post a picture of the monitor when it hits a high - I will have to see what I can do.
I have no idea who/what digitaltoast is, and really do not care - I have the panels, and know that it happens.