Free solar panel discussion

SavySave

Hi all

The idea of all this has interested me for some time...
I wanted to try out my scenario and see if you're all able to help fill in the blanks.

My understanding...
I pay circa £14k to have the panels fitted myself.
The FITs scheme pays me a guaranteed £900 (or so) per year for 25 years.
I get free electicity while the sun shines
I receive a payment from the power company for every unit I generate.

That appears to be the easy bit...
Now for all my questions...

1. Do I get some kind of meter in the house - so I know what I'm using for free and what I'm taking from the grid (paying for).
I.E. If I had an electric heater or the washing machine on during the day - how would I know if I was using it for free? Does that make sense?

2. Does the system heat water? - so I could disconnect my Gas Central Heating from the job. I'm a single Dad with 3 daughters - so this one is of great interest :-)

3. A panel breaks or stops working. Are they guaranteed by the company or covered by my home insurance? The guarantee maybe specific to the supplier I purchase from - but interested in the general thought on this one.

4. Do the panels actually last 25years+. I seem to remember reading somewhere that they only last a few years (I could be mad here - so happy to be corrected).

5. Will these become more expensive next year - when the VAT goes up.

I'm sure I've got a few more questions - but brain lock has occurred - so I'll leave this for now. Thank you, in advance, for anyone who can help... and hope that it helps other people too.

Cardew

SavySave wrote: »

Hi all

The idea of all this has interested me for some time...
I wanted to try out my scenario and see if you're all able to help fill in the blanks.

My understanding...
I pay circa £14k to have the panels fitted myself.
The FITs scheme pays me a guaranteed £900 (or so) per year for 25 years.
I get free electicity while the sun shines
I receive a payment from the power company for every unit I generate.

That appears to be the easy bit...
Now for all my questions...

1. Do I get some kind of meter in the house - so I know what I'm using for free and what I'm taking from the grid (paying for).
I.E. If I had an electric heater or the washing machine on during the day - how would I know if I was using it for free? Does that make sense?

2. Does the system heat water? - so I could disconnect my Gas Central Heating from the job. I'm a single Dad with 3 daughters - so this one is of great interest :-)

3. A panel breaks or stops working. Are they guaranteed by the company or covered by my home insurance? The guarantee maybe specific to the supplier I purchase from - but interested in the general thought on this one.

4. Do the panels actually last 25years+. I seem to remember reading somewhere that they only last a few years (I could be mad here - so happy to be corrected).

5. Will these become more expensive next year - when the VAT goes up.

I'm sure I've got a few more questions - but brain lock has occurred - so I'll leave this for now. Thank you, in advance, for anyone who can help... and hope that it helps other people too.

For £14k you should get more than £900 in FIT. That sum should buy close to a 3.5kWp system which should earn closer to £1,100 from FIT.

You only get 3p/kWh for electricity you export. You can elect to say 50% of your output is exported; so a further £40 to £50 a year.

Question 1.
You get a meter which tells you how much electricity your panels are producing. You can have an export meter fitted(normally a few pounds extra) that tells you what is exported. From that you can work out what you have used in the house. e.g. 1,000kWh produced: 700kWh exported: thus 300kWh used in house.

Q2
Essentially NO. on a sunny midsummers day around noon you just might generate enough - but most of the time it doesn't produce enough electricity.

Q3
Most systems have a 2 year guarantee, panels themselves 10 years or more.
How many of the installation firms will be around, after the initial frenzy to fit PV systems,remains to be seen.
Some insurance backed schemes are supposed to be offered - value unknown.

Q4
Panels are reliable who know how long they will last. Performance does decrease very slightly year on year.

Q5
VAT increase does not affect PV systems. Prices are predicted by many to decrease over the next year or so.

Bear in mind that the FIT rate decreases in April 2012 for new installations - or earlier if the Government decides. There are many thousands of 'rent a roof' systems that might fill an(un-announced) quota.

M4ximillion

I think i might not be going for the freebie option from ASG. After having a good think I spoke to Sarah there last week cause i'd been thinking that they must get their stuff really really cheaply if they can afford to do what theyre doing - they must get a really big discount if theyre fitting so many. So anyway I asked if there was any chance of buying a system and if there was how much would it REALLY cost (I was curious more than anything cause i really didnt beleive i could afford one i just wanted to know how cheaply i could get one). Anyway to cut a long story short i kind of guessed shed say they dont sell their systems, and she did say that and fair doos but she did say that if i really wanted to buy i should contact their sister company which is now selling to teh public and see what they have to say. I didnt know they had a sister company but anyway she gave me the phone number and website and I contacted this guy there and theyre doing what he called a joint venture package. I just wanted your opinion on this cause theyre coming out to see me next week but what i can gather is that i would pay a half of the cost of a 3.3kw system (which is the same size as what ASG are going to fit) and then we would share the FIT payments but if i ever wanted to buy them out i would be able to do so for the remainder at any time. I reckon that if, say, it was about £14 or £15k (which he kind of hinted it might be) then i could add about 7 or 8k to my mortgage without me even feeling it! That would mean i would get my free leccy and about £600 a year fromt he FIT. I dont want to get excited cause there may be all sorts of catches and anyway i might not even be able to get anymore on my mortgage. I just wondered has anyone else heard of this type of thing and what do you think might be the downside?

beedydad

M4ximillion wrote: »

I think i might not be going for the freebie option from ASG. After having a good think I spoke to Sarah there last week cause i'd been thinking that they must get their stuff really really cheaply if they can afford to do what theyre doing - they must get a really big discount if theyre fitting so many. So anyway I asked if there was any chance of buying a system and if there was how much would it REALLY cost (I was curious more than anything cause i really didnt beleive i could afford one i just wanted to know how cheaply i could get one). Anyway to cut a long story short i kind of guessed shed say they dont sell their systems, and she did say that and fair doos but she did say that if i really wanted to buy i should contact their sister company which is now selling to teh public and see what they have to say. I didnt know they had a sister company but anyway she gave me the phone number and website and I contacted this guy there and theyre doing what he called a joint venture package. I just wanted your opinion on this cause theyre coming out to see me next week but what i can gather is that i would pay a half of the cost of a 3.3kw system (which is the same size as what ASG are going to fit) and then we would share the FIT payments but if i ever wanted to buy them out i would be able to do so for the remainder at any time. I reckon that if, say, it was about £14 or £15k (which he kind of hinted it might be) then i could add about 7 or 8k to my mortgage without me even feeling it! That would mean i would get my free leccy and about £600 a year fromt he FIT. I dont want to get excited cause there may be all sorts of catches and anyway i might not even be able to get anymore on my mortgage. I just wondered has anyone else heard of this type of thing and what do you think might be the downside?

Interesting take but still issues will arise, which I am sure others may comment on.

A kit of 3.3kw should cost around £10 - £11,000 for MCS installed - so get some other quotes for comparison.

If so why would you extend your mortgage by £7-£8,000 when for a few 1,000 more you get the full ownership of the solar kit + and very importantly the full FIT which will pay for the increase in your mortgage.

grahamc2003

M4ximillion wrote: »

then i could add about 7 or 8k to my mortgage without me even feeling it! That would mean i would get my free leccy and about £600 a year fromt he FIT. I dont want to get excited cause there may be all sorts of catches and anyway i might not even be able to get anymore on my mortgage. I just wondered has anyone else heard of this type of thing and what do you think might be the downside?

The downside (if I could inform you without you replying with minor abuse like last time) is that there's a well known saying that you should never borrow to invest.

That is what you are proposing.

I'm sure you've done the maths and think you'll gain a little (i.e. the returns being greater than your increased outgoings) with the base rate at 0.5%, and mortgage rates at historic low levels, but do the calcs again with a 6, 8 or 10% mortgage rate (or 15.5% - the rate of my first mortgage). That's the gamble you would be taking.

M4ximillion

grahamc2003 wrote: »

The downside (if I could inform you without you replying with minor abuse like last time) .

Thanks for your advice but what are you on about? What abuse? Think you are mistaking me for someone else.

JenR8

grahamc2003 wrote: »

I wonder if you could answer a question I've asked a few times before without response?

In the contract, does it mention anything about the land registry, and if so, could you indicate what it says? Thanks.

Under 'obtaining 3rd party consents' the contract states they will check the land registry for any other rights registered against the house, and "you acknowledge that we may register this roof lease at the Land Registry, and at our request and cost, you will take all steps...to assist us in doing so"

No other mention of land registry that I can see.

Is that what you wanted?

grahamc2003

JenR8 wrote: »

Under 'obtaining 3rd party consents' the contract states they will check the land registry for any other rights registered against the house, and "you acknowledge that we may register this roof lease at the Land Registry, and at our request and cost, you will take all steps...to assist us in doing so"

No other mention of land registry that I can see.

Is that what you wanted?

Yes, thanks, and thanks to others who've now answered.

afaiui, It confirms that those taking out the free panels on this, and other contracts, will be stopped from selling their house to a buyer not wanting the panels and not buying out the contract. Someone recently posted a buyout clause, and it looks really horrific - and included to total costs of fits which would be payable under the contract (so you'd have to be really desparate to buyout the contract).

I had another contract forwarded to me (thanks Paul) where there was no mention of the Land registry, but I expect that company to soon get a similar clause in to protect their interests (i.e. where there is no mention of registering the lease, then the homeowner is physically able to sell (even though such a sale may break other terms in the agreement).

Basically, if sentiment turns against these solar panels in some years time, and people don't want them, then a house with them could be difficult to sell, or have to be discounted to sell.

Quite an unquantifiable risk for such a small reward in my opinion.

All subject to my understanding of the situation, which may of course be wrong.

M4ximillion

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Basically, if sentiment turns against these solar panels in some years time, and people don't want them, then a house with them could be difficult to sell, or have to be discounted to sell.

Just out of interest, why do you think this would happen? People are gettng greener by the minute - everyone i know recycles everything now, its kind of the done thing and if you dont do it you are frowned upon. Leccy is going up in price and will keep going up, we all know that. Solar is getting more popular - look at Germany, so why would the uk suddenly go anti solar? If I were to listen to you i wouldn't have freebies and i wouldnt buy them either, so i guess that you are anti solar full stop or are there some instances where its ok to have solar, in your opinion?

energysavingexp

Some more info Re the contract:

it is for 26 years not 25

and you can get them to pay you a rent for the use of the air space above you roof
under section2.1. as set out in clause 2.2 but you after ask them for it.