Free solar panel discussion

grahamc2003

K4blades wrote: »

l

Oh come on K4 - let's all discuss and disagree, no problem with that, but don't make things unpleasant If you disagree with someone's views, then put yours forward, and perhaps try reading the reply you'd get.

pauldreed

ASG installed their system on my home yesterday, and here are a few photos of what and how it was installed.
1) Firstly the scaffolding was erected (a few days earlier)
2) 18 Panels fitted
3) The Inverter, Isolating Switches and Meter fitted in the loft
4) A separate fuse and isolating switch fitted in garage next to consumer unit
5) Seperate power tails (coming from 4 above) being fed into the meter via a Henley block

What is interesting, is that their system is totally separate to the home circuit and does not feed in through my consumer unit - this is reallly good because I am able to monitor what is being generated, as well as how much is being used within the home.

Overall, a very tidy and impressive installation. No mess, and everything done very neatly.

(Also posted in the thread - 'Free solar power system. Is it a scam?')

zeupater

K4blades wrote: »

...

l

Hi All

Following on from grahamc2003's post and the one referenced above (Which has been removed, as has the text in the quote) ..... a challenge .... 'If I had the time I could pull his arguements to bits' .... to save time here are the variables(facts) ....

Feel free to use my average costs as an example (Costs inclusive of VAT and dual fuel discounts) .... If my figures are not considered as being readily obtainable please feel free to check on any cost comparison website ......

Gas - 2.7745p/kWh
Electricity - 8.5833p/kWh

The best tariff currently available on cost comparison websites for electricity only supply shows cost/kWh as Rate1=17.74p(to 900kWh)/Rate2=6.96p/E7=3.36p

Daily hot water heat replenishment requirement for this exercise can be assumed to be 6kWh (2190kWh/Yr) - this is conservative and to PassivHaus standards, UK average is 14kWh, building standards is 10.4kWh ...... (Mine is currently below 6kWh and provided by an 'A' rated gas condensing boiler).

Electric immersion heater rated at 3kW

Location - Meriden, England ... 52°26'10" North, 1°38'47" West (just because it's in the middle and provides a fair average insolation)

Array 3.3kWp on a 35 Degree south facing roof (because this is near to optimal)

pv Daily output from 3.3kWp system by month from PVGIS (because the PVGIS database provides the basis of insolation data for pv software)

Mth/Daily kWh
01 3.11
02 5.05
03 7.10
04 10.2
05 11.6
06 11.4
07 11.7
08 10.5
09 8.74
10 6.00
11 3.61
12 2.24

Average Daily Generation 7.62kWh/Day
Total Generation 2780kWh

Expect generation from a 3.3kWp array to be .......

25% of annual power below 700W production
50% below 1600W
75% below 2400W
3% above 3000W (If not limited by the inverter)


Well that saves the time in researching all the variables (these are the facts) ..... and the answer is ??? ...... (well I'm waiting to see if solar pv is cheaper than gas or E7 electricity, even if the others aren't !!)


...............

Now then .......... 'but he ASSUMES no one can read their electricity bills and compare them to last years.' ...... my energy bills for 2010 were lower than those for 2009, but I don't really know how much lower they were on a direct comparison of either cost or energy consumed due to the difference in ambient temperatures between this year and last ..... I could make a very good guess because I have a detailed energy usage and ambient temperature history analysis going back over more than 6 years ...... If I can't do it directly and easily from the energy bills without reference to the collected data, I doubt there are many who could .....

To keep thing simple, let's leave the loophole out of the discussion for this one, I'd like to see anyone provide a calculation to say that a standard 240V immersion heater being run on solar pv supplimented by imported daytime electricity could work out cheaper than either gas or E7. The variables (facts) are there, now what's the calculation and the answer .... I could do with a :rotfl:

I'd be interested to see if anyone who actually has a sub 4kWp system believes that it is possible to save money by heating water with a standard immersion heater by using their pv and daytime electricity instead of E7 or gas ......

John_Pierpoint

zeupater wrote: »

Daily hot water heat replenishment requirement for this exercise can be assumed to be 6kWh (2190kWh/Yr) - this is conservative and to PassivHaus standards, UK average is 14kWh, building standards is 10.4kWh ...... (Mine is currently below 6kWh and provided by an 'A' rated gas condensing boiler).

So you would need a 3kW immersion to be on for 2 hours per day to provide hot water (or install a 1kW immersion and turn it on for 6 hours).

Am I right in thinking that these other figures of 14kWh, 10.4kWh etc. refer to January conditions or are they averaged over the whole year?
(I seem to remember having a modest boiler with an output of 15kW)

energysavingexp

forget aboat heating your hot water with an emersion heter
get solar panels.
i fitted 2 20tube panels 3years ago and from march 4th to end of october i do not use any gas at all.
the temp of the hot water today (raining yet again) is 65'c with a 300ltr tank
best thing i have ever fitted. total cost less than £1000
cost of each panel £320, tank £200 electric unit £99
the tank is 100% stainless steel.
just waiting for them to fit 4.5kw solar pv in a few weeks time.
this should meet all my eleci cost as i only use 6kw per day.
as for water cost i was paying £560 per year.
i now have a water meter fitted (4 years now) my water bill is now £115 PA
£100 of that is standing charge (cannot do any thing to reduce that)
all i use from the water main is drinking water as for the rest i collect all the rain water and filter it through 3 filters first a 5 micron
then a charcole filter then a filter that is 99.999% pure.
its just a shame i cannot reduce my council tax.
this is the biggest rip off along with the tv licence.

barneygumble

pauldreed wrote: »

ASG installed their system on my home yesterday, and here are a few photos of what and how it was installed.
1) Firstly the scaffolding was erected (a few days earlier)
2) 18 Panels fitted
3) The Inverter, Isolating Switches and Meter fitted in the loft
4) A separate fuse and isolating switch fitted in garage next to consumer unit
5) Seperate power tails (coming from 4 above) being fed into the meter via a Henley block

What is interesting, is that their system is totally separate to the home circuit and does not feed in through my consumer unit - this is reallly good because I am able to monitor what is being generated, as well as how much is being used within the home.

Overall, a very tidy and impressive installation. No mess, and everything done very neatly.

(Also posted in the thread - 'Free solar power system. Is it a scam?')

Looks good, shame my roof was structurally not suitable.

beedydad

energysavingexp wrote: »

forget aboat heating your hot water with an emersion heter
get solar panels.
i fitted 2 20tube panels 3years ago and from march 4th to end of october i do not use any gas at all.
the temp of the hot water today (raining yet again) is 65'c with a 300ltr tank
best thing i have ever fitted. total cost less than £1000
cost of each panel £320, tank £200 electric unit £99
the tank is 100% stainless steel.
just waiting for them to fit 4.5kw solar pv in a few weeks time.
this should meet all my eleci cost as i only use 6kw per day.
as for water cost i was paying £560 per year.
i now have a water meter fitted (4 years now) my water bill is now £115 PA
£100 of that is standing charge (cannot do any thing to reduce that)
all i use from the water main is drinking water as for the rest i collect all the rain water and filter it through 3 filters first a 5 micron
then a charcole filter then a filter that is 99.999% pure.
its just a shame i cannot reduce my council tax.
this is the biggest rip off along with the tv licence.

Energy savingexp:- Looks sound other than you state you are having a 4.5kw solar pv kit installed.

This is above the permitted max of 4kw to gain the highest FIT payments. The larger array will recieve lower FIT payments over the 25 years.

Are you sure about your requirments?

Regards

zeupater

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

So you would need a 3kW immersion to be on for 2 hours per day to provide hot water (or install a 1kW immersion and turn it on for 6 hours).

Am I right in thinking that these other figures of 14kWh, 10.4kWh etc. refer to January conditions or are they averaged over the whole year?
(I seem to remember having a modest boiler with an output of 15kW)

Hi John

I believe that the figures for hot water are averaged over the year (but stand to be corrected if wrong) ... there would be seasonal variations caused by ground temperatures and increased losses due to the house temperatures, this is reflected in my own water heating as an energy input differential of around 0.9kWh/Day between winter and summer usage.

energysavingexp

beedydad wrote: »

Energy savingexp:- Looks sound other than you state you are having a 4.5kw solar pv kit installed.

This is above the permitted max of 4kw to gain the highest FIT payments. The larger array will recieve lower FIT payments over the 25 years.

Are you sure about your requirments?

Regards

yes he said that they would fit 24 panels, each one is 185w
total 4.44kw.
they will get the F.I.T
so it wont be me loosing out.

jackieblack

energysavingexp wrote: »

forget aboat heating your hot water with an emersion heter
get solar panels.
i fitted 2 20tube panels 3years ago and from march 4th to end of october i do not use any gas at all.
the temp of the hot water today (raining yet again) is 65'c with a 300ltr tank
best thing i have ever fitted. total cost less than £1000
cost of each panel £320, tank £200 electric unit £99

It is my understanding (but am happy to be corrected if I have mis-understood this) that if you have solar pv and use your immersion heater to heat water during the day while the panels are generating electricity, you're getting your hot water heated for free

No need for seperate solar hot water panels - saving of £939!