Special Official Note For Mortgage Brokers

MortgageMamma

dunstonh wrote:

So it appears to have little to do with the "cold PM'ers" but just a standard signature.

Initially just standard signatures yes, but this thread has been very insightful and the issues that have been brought up are important and - whilst we all have our own feelings - its good that we are trying to think of solutions

Obviously the final decision ends with Martin, but one good thing about this thread is, every regular forum adviser has posted and really THOUGHT about what can be done to improve things, and that demonstrates that we all care about the site in general, the forum users, the regulatory issues and our perceptions and attitudes towards our own liability, treating forum users with a duty of care, and above all, fairness.

Us advisers are all responsible, thoughtful and intelligent and honest people which is what all forums need and want and on their boards - you have to have a lot of integrity to survive in this industry - and soon we will have some feedback and instructions from Martin and this issue will hopefully never have to be raised again

MM

Arch-Angel

I think a combination of both MSE "vetting" - or validating if you prefer - the status of broker's (Andrew Smith) and including the FSA number of the actual member in the signature (ctabuk) would work very well. I would suspect that to do this (the FSA number in the signature) would mean that you have to say what kind of "expert" you are. My thinking here is that a post from a know (and vetted) broker on an issue is perhaps "worth" more than a post from someone simply trying to help. However, there still remains the problem that the broker post could be construed as official advice - please don't say that I've taken this debate back to square one!!!!

FWIW I suggest a standard signature along the lines of:

"I am a [insert type of broker]. Under FSA regulations I am forbidden to provide specific advice via this forum or by any unregulated means. I am also forbidden to make unsolicited contact to any user of this forum.

My FSA number is: xxxxxxxx. My identity and status as a [insert type of broker] can be verified by going to the FSA website - www.fsa.org.uk?."


MM - My pleasure (don't want to get shouted at by Martin for this thread remaining "off-piste"!!)

payless

Looks like those that want to have signatures will be given the choice - based on a standard format.. I assume Martin therefore does not see this as touting for business ( or if he does, then does not mind... given the benefit he's sees in having regular brokers replying to threads)

I think any signature ( that a broker uses , that mentions his occupation) should perhaps retain the " Your Home may be ...." warning

Whether it could then say regulatory info via homepage in profile or something like that ?

oh.. back to where we were

payless

As soon as you mention FSA you start having to do things in a certain way

MortgageMamma

I think the FSA and all regulatory statements shoud be kept out of signatures and that signatures should just contain a "thisis not advice" and - "be waryof people approaching you via PM for business - this is what to do if it happens"

Joe_Bloggs

What has the Food Standards Agency got to do with this. ? I suppose they have dealings with vetenarians. This article is food for thought.
If the other FSA are controlling what you think, write, say and do is, there not some human rights issue to be addressed. Do they make you wear stripey shirts ?
J_B.

Arch-Angel

MortgageMamma wrote:

I think the FSA and all regulatory statements shoud be kept out of signatures and that signatures should just contain a "thisis not advice" and - "be waryof people approaching you via PM for business - this is what to do if it happens"

Noted - but how would I approach, lets say you, formally to act as my broker. You've not solicited business from me, you've acted within the guidelines....but if I think "this person is someone I can work with - she's not going to make my life awkward...", how could I approach you formally?

I know that the brokers (the majority at least! )are not on here to generate business - but I would suspect that there are a few people on here who would like to approach you (for example) to act as their broker. There's also quite a few people on here who want to get a bit of advice before going directly to the bank/building soceity theselves; each to their own. But how would I approach you formally as a broker?

I see your point regarding the regulatory statements - a simple "This is my personal opinion" should cover most angles. Indeed - as a second thought - the sheer mention of FSA regulations and the like could suggest that your post IS official advice, which is exactally what we're trying to avoid!! :eek: However, at the same time - my original thought - highlighting that you (the posting broker) is aware of the regulations and what you can and can't post strengthens your post - i.e. "this post is only gereral advice, because I KNOW that is all I am allowed to post! If you want more specific information then you must speak to a whole-of-market...etc..etc..."

dunstonh

payless is correct. The FSA are specific on how you use any reference to them.

Also, in true FSA style, there are no rules forbidding you from giving advice. You just have to ensure that you "know your client". A thread on a forum isnt enough to "know your client" and in the event of a complaint, if you had given advice on the basis of a thread with no personal details or full disclosure in the required order then it would end up as an upheld complaint.

As has been mentioned already, mortgage and protection class advisers do not, at this time, appear on the FSA register. Only firm owners and investment class advisers appear on there. So, the board wouldnt be able to validate any non-investment class adviser. Any linking would be pointless as it would have nowhere to point to.

Lets go back to basics. Why do you have sigs?

1 - to protect ourselves in case someone decides to report us for giving advice.
2 - to let people know what side of the fence we sit on

So, as long as the sig covers both of those things, then the actual wording isnt really a problem.

Also, not matter how many warnings you have in your sig, if you dont post in a responsible manner, you are going to potentially create problems. Perhaps when responding to someone who creates a thread needing advice, we state up front that we arent giving advice and just discussing options which the person can investigate for themselves. I have used that a few times in the investment/pensions forum when someone actually uses the word "advice".

MortgageMamma

Personally I think all approaches from forum users to brokers if they want to take matters further should not be done by PM - but perhaps by email, or the forum user just calling the broker for a chat -

- but I do think there should be a slap button next to the abuse buttons for those that "use" brokers and other professionals by invading their personal and business time asking for personal advice specific to their needs, taking up the brokers time and resources and then going straight to the lender or mortgage genie - this is one of the reasons I have stopped acting on PM's from posters wanting help on here, as it can do a business more harm than good!

whiteflag_3

dunstonh wrote:

Lets go back to basics. Why do you have sigs?

1 - to protect ourselves in case someone decides to report us for giving advice.
2 - to let people know what side of the fence we sit on

With respect Dh , if you had no signature and no links to you, then its going to be pretty difficult for somebody to report you.

You and I also know that some people choose to ignore us even when we let them know what side of the fence we sit!;)