Tenants - are you happy for your personal data to be shared ?

neverdespairgirl

ali_pasaul wrote: »

and then one day you will wake up and your nice street with be turned into scag alley and then you will wish that your landlord could have checked out who moved in next door to you and gave your kids her first crack pipe.

Um. Reality. Check. Needed.

sp1987

clutton wrote: »

No landlord wants to tar good tenants with a bad reputation - why would they ? Good tenants are worth their weight .....

But equally, why shouldn't other landlords know about a few scroat benefit cheats who are going the rounds stealing from one landlord after another ? Why should these folks steal all our taxes and be allowed to continue to do so ?

In the same way why should scroat landlords be allowed to continue treating tenants poorly.?

The only correction I would make here is

'No good landlord wants to tar good tenants with a bad reputation - why would they ? Good tenants are worth their weight .....'

The god awful ones normally make many a bodge up of things that makes leaving unfair and incorrect comments shine like a beacon of good decision making :rotfl:

neverdespairgirl

ali_pasaul wrote: »

As a tenant you are protected and you have rights and the law will prosecute landlords and imprison them for falling you, as a landlord if you fail a landlord we have nothing at all, LRS is just giving us the opportunity of equality and fairness and I cannot for the life of me see why that is wrong.

As a landlord, you can issue s.8 and s.21 notices. You can sue for damage. The law may prosecute for criminal damage. A long way from "nothing".

neverdespairgirl

ali_pasaul wrote: »

whats intrusive ms defensive?

Again, in English, please?

clutton_2

Miss Mp says ....... ""Which means that you have called tenants "scroats", so I haven't misquoted you.""

Clutton says ... ""In the same way why should scroat landlords be allowed to continue treating tenants poorly.? ""

happy now ?

tbs624

clutton wrote: »

i know that LRS want all landlords to upload details of all their tenants, as they want to be seen as a Referencing service, but, in reality i think most landlords will think of them as a Bad Tenants database... whether that is their intention or not...

You are still missing the point Clutton. It is not a question of how individual LLs may personally choose to use this database: it’s the fact that many people view it as inappropriate that such a DB run by a LL should be in place at all, especially given that its precise methods are not open and clear to the data subjects and, as has already been said, Ts will probably have been unaware that their private info was being disclosed in this manner.

This may be of interest, as it indicates that its not just a handful of Ts on here who worry about increased data sharing.
http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/pressreleases/2010/benefit_crackdown_110810.pdf

clutton wrote: »

I will probably be flamed for this. but since we are having full and frank discussion......

It’s not a flaming just because someone disagrees with your stance - merely an extension of the discussion.

clutton wrote: »

…, in my view, the relationship between the two parties of an AST is not an equal relationship ………….- in this adversarial interaction each "side" thinks that the other side has the most level part of the playing field and that the law is more on the side of the other side than on theirs.. and nothing can be said to change those entrenched views.....

But i dont think there is equality and i dont think there ever will be.... A property owner (landlord) is offering the caretakership of a VERY expensive asset to another person they have known but for a few minutes.... whilst on the other hand, a tenant is being given a home by someone they have also only known for a few minutes...... this is fraught with dangers, and trust is a big issue here... on both sides...

Can I stop you there Clutton? “the LL is offering” “ a T is being given” - you make it sound as though the T is merely “a taker” and that the LL is some sort of benevolent/philanthropic fairy godmother.

Let’s look at that again and try adding in “the T is offering to pay rent” (covering the LLs mortgage payments, plus some) and/or “the LL is being given” an initial Fixed Term commitment from the T, the money with which to pay down his mortgage, the volumes of personal information, the trust that the LL will actually pay the mortgage and not leave the T vulnerable to an eviction with little notice ( particularly harsh on young families)

clutton wrote: »

Legally, each has differing legal duties and responsibilities

Obviously…..

clutton wrote: »

But because of the AST legislation and the length of time it takes to get legal possession, landlords have been losing a lot of money in possession cases and have, in recent years, been adopting a more aggressive approach to tenant verification on the basis that prevention, and a few months voids, is better than a bad tenant.

As the possession cases will usually have an element of rent arrears involved , these figs may be of interest: the NLA has recently carried a report which says:

A fifth of private-residential landlords have had tenants in rent
arrears over the last three months, according to new research published today by the National Landlords Association (NLA)
.
During Q2 2010, just over 21 per cent of landlords experienced rental arrears. This represents a small improvement on the previous quarter when 24.5 per cent of landlords reported the same.
However, the average amount of outstanding rent arrears has dropped significantly from £978 in Q1 to £799 in Q2. This could indicate that financial pressures on tenants have started to ease as the fragile economic recovery continues.

(Let’s remember that that means 21% of LLs , not 21% of all Ts)

clutton wrote: »

No landlord wants to tar good tenants with a bad reputation - why would they ? Good tenants are worth their weight .....

Why would they? A LL who does have a “good” T (ie one pays the rent on time, tries to look after the property, leaves in line with the agreed notice etc) may nevertheless view them as a “bad” T because during the tenancy the LL was reported to the local TRO for failures on his part. Alternatively, a LL may simply feel aggrieved that his good T has chosen to move on and the Llis facing an unwelcome void : the T ceases to be “worth their weight” to that particular LL

clutton wrote: »

But equally, why shouldn't other landlords know about a few scroat benefit cheats who are going the rounds stealing from one landlord after another ?

Because it not just the few “scrotes” whose info gets passed on?

clutton wrote: »

In the same way why should scroat landlords be allowed to continue treating tenants poorly.?

We sometime forget there has been a lot of legislation in the last 10 years to tighten things up for tenants' benefit and tenants here rarely acknowledge the forward-looking measures which were brought in as a result of Governments attempts to crack down on poor landlording.. tenancy deposit schemes; HMO legislation; Scottish landlord register; Selective licensing; HHSRS; H&S regs; Gas Regs.... and so on ...

All these things have made life better for most tenants..

Three points (1) they weren’t brought in as a result of the Govts attempts to crack down: most were as a result of some very prolonged lobbying from CAB/ Shelter/CRISIS et al and (2) each of those has , in turn, been argued against by LLs and LAs and (3) they are implemented by a formal body with appropriate checks in place. LRS has been set up by an individual LL with large property portfolio, much of which I understand to be at the lower end of the PRS.

clutton wrote: »

Landlords may now find that LRS can make their lives a little better also.....

but this should not be at the expense of ordinary non- troublesome Ts who prefer to limit unnecessary access to their personal information.

Let’s not forget that the LL associations heaved a sigh of relief when the proposals for a LL Registration Scheme in E/Wales got shoved on to the back burner. Most were not keen on the idea of their names and their properties being listed on a database available to Ts ( & others connected with LL compliance). Funny, that.:think:

john539

It's effectively an unregulated private registration/surveillance system, which is open to abuse.

Maybe it's under the radar for now, until something goes wrong.

PROFESSIONAL_LANDLORD

tbs624 wrote: »

Let’s not forget that the LL associations heaved a sigh of relief when the proposals for a LL Registration Scheme in E/Wales got shoved on to the back burner. Most were not keen on the idea of their names and their properties being listed on a database available to Ts ( & others connected with LL compliance). Funny, that.:think:

Funny or not, England and Wales will follow Scotland and register it's LL's. It's only a matter of time.

millym

No offence to the bloke who started the website, but I really do think that such a scheme needs to be run by an impartial, independent body, not a landlord. If it was run by TDS or a similar organisation, I think that it would have much more credibility.

Look at credit reference agencies. For a start, everyone knows that they hold information about them - there is transparency. Also, they only record factual information, provided by institutions and organisations, backed by relevant paperwork (default notices, ccj's). They are therefore perceived as impartial. An individual can only record negative data by getting a ccj against someone. The info is readily accessible, with procedures in place to have records amended if inaccuracies are recorded.

The problems with this site are that:

1. They could be perceived as being biased, as it's run by a LL.
2. The info is placed by individuals, not organisations who are governed by regulatory bodies.
3. Tenants won't neccessarily know that the site exists, let alone whether their data is on it - no transparency.
4. People have to give their permission to be credit searched. The site would have greater transparency and therefore credibility if tenants had to give specific permission for a search of the site.
5. CRA's can only give info about someone to an organisation. It would appear that anyone could potentially register and search the site.
6. The whole system seems to be based on opinion, not fact and is therefore open to abuse and potential loss of credibility.
7. A LL receives info about a potential T from another LL. They will know even less about this other LL, and their honesty, than they know about their potential T.

(reminds me of that terrible Brighthouse place, where customers give their friends names as references. Brighthouse then phone up these friends, whom they know nothing about, and ask about the creditworthiness of the customer. Essentially they receive a meaningless good reference from a complete stranger!).
8. There is no transparency about what info is held, or how it is shared.
9. It is unregulated, and it's members are unregulated.
10.The design of the site has an amateur feel to it and is difficult to navigate. A lot of the info on it is very long-winded (I've got a cheek to talk )

This is just off the top of my head. I'm sure I'll think of other things

Btw, Clutton, you sound like an excellent LL, and I'm glad the site has been helpful to you, but I do have a lot of reservations. I do think there is a need for some system to flag up bad T's, but it needs to be done right.

clutton_2

millym - i can see from a tenant's perspective that this site is seen as a threat... but using web-design as a critical point is scraping the bottom of the barrel dontcha think ??


Ali - altho you are a landlord who feels passionately about rogue tenants, i dont think that your language about satan and evil are doing us landlords any favours... we are trying to have a balanced rational discussion here..... so please try not to behave like a bully-boy because others do not agree with you...

Just out of interest i have looked at the tenancy application form which many many landlords use.... and i enclose an extract from it....


The Data protection disclaimer page on the www.landlordzone.co.uk tenancy application form has the following sections:-

I (the tenant) believe the information provided here to be true and authorise the landlord or agent to

carry out credit searches and reference checks and to contact employers, banks, referees, and credit reference agencies as necessary

use the information obtained with third parties to assess credit ratings, make insurance decisions, for fraud prevention and tracing / debt collection.

handle all information obtained in strictest confidence and in accordance with the principles of the Data Protection Act 1988

I understand that i can request the details of any credit reference agencies used so that i can verify with them the information provided""


So tenants can quite legitimately ask the LL for any information they find out about them... but in 11 years i have never been asked for this.....