Motor Insurance renewed by Barclays for dying man!

beverly_hills

Spruance wrote: »

I have posted elsewhere on this forum about the plight of my 86 year old uncle who is very gravely ill in hospital and not expected to last very much longer.(qv: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2621807 )


He has been seriously ill since the end of March 2010 but before this was a fully independent person living alone (with regular family oversight) in a semi detached house with a large garden and three greenhouses. He had his own car but mainly just for local use and his weekly supermarket shopping.

He was always fiercely independent and did not like to accept offers of assistance from the family although we did help him with his garden and unfortunately as it has transpired, last year I helped him get a better deal on his car insurance, or so it then seemed. (If I had only had a crystal ball etc).

My uncle had never been interested in having a credit card but I had no qualms about paying for the new Barclays policy on mine as he immediately repaid me in cash and it meant that he made a substantial saving on his former broker-arranged policy.

When he fell ill at the end of March 2010 he soon realised that he would be unable to keep the car on and so transferred ownership to another relation (my cousin). It was all documented correctly and the registration document slip was forwarded to DVLA who subsequently sent written confirmation of the change of ownership with a note to say that this confirmation should be retained as evidence of the change. My cousin then took out his own insurance policy on the vehicle.

Nothing was done about cancelling the old policy as it was presumed that this would lapse on expiry (as indeed always happens with policies that I have taken out with various providers over the last 30 odd years) and it was felt that any refund due would be absorbed by any cancellation fee.


That was that as far as anyone was concerned but today (29th July 2010) when I carried out a routine check on my uncle's house, I noticed a bulky envelope from Barclays in the letterbox. Significantly this wasn't there when I visited yesterday.


I brought it home and opened it and was astounded to see that Barclays had renewed the policy for another year, and taken payment from my own credit card. This despite the fact that I have a re-issued (Tesco Mastercard) credit card this year with different expiry date and different last four digits. Having had no contact whatsoever with Barclays until todays protest call I fail to understand how on earth they managed to get the new card information. After all the very few online sites with whom I entrust my credit card details requested - without exception - that I upload my new details when the old card expired. To add insult to injury the policy document received today, 29th July 2010 stated that payment would be taken yesterday 28th July 2010 so that's notice of minus one day.


I spoke to Tesco Personal Finance to query the transaction but they said that I really needed to speak to Barclays in the first instance, but they said that they would make a note that I was disputing the transaction. Fair enough I thought, and so phoned Barclays to discuss the situation with them.


I reasoned that Barclays would fully understand the situation as being a major player in the insurance industry this must surely have happened before, and indeed they said it had. The problem however seems to be an over adherence to the Jobsworth mantra. Having explained the situation regarding my uncle's deteriorating health I was first asked to get a letter issued by the hospital which my uncle should countersign. I wanted to explode with rage at this point but managed to retain my composure and explained for the umpteenth time that my uncle is dying and is currently slipping in and out of consciousness, not knowing where he is and barely recognising close family members. There is absolutely know way that he can communicate or understand what is going on and I fail to understand why Barclays are being so awkward about this. From the sound of things it would be easier to cancel the policy - at least from Barclays inflexible standpoint - if my uncle would obligingly die straight away, as then all that would be needed would be a copy of the death certificate.:mad:


The ward staff where my uncle is currently being cared for hardly have time to look after the urgent needs of the patients let alone writing pointless letters to Barclays. After all according to Barclays standpoint if my uncle - heaven forbid - should slip into a coma, then I can expect to be paying his annual motor insurance renewal in perpetuity.


I can appreciate that Barclays call centre staff have a very narrow remit, and although my call was referred to a supervisor, I felt that I was just banging my head against the wall.


It looks like I will have to use the usual fallback option and write to Barclays CEO, in the hope that he at least has a modicum of common sense. I have enough emotional stress to deal with at the moment without being persecuted by Barclays.


I just wondered if any of the very helpful people on here could suggest an alternative strategy?


Spruance

Dear Spruance, you have my full sympathy for having to deal with what would usually be a relatively minor problem in life at such a time when there are just so many greater issues around. I would advise that you try to mentally "take a step back" and view the insurance problem from a more detatched point. Put the Barclays issue on the back burner meantime, the whole point is that your credit card provider paid out money without your permission, you can prove that because Barclays would have had your new card number also the security number from the new card. By giving these numbers to the payee, that is how we give permission for the transaction.
Ask your c/card people for details of the numbers submitted to them with the request for payment, the date it was applied for, and all references and authorisation codes. They made the mistake, moreso than Barclays, as it is quite usual for a renewal notice to state that if you want the policy to continue you don't have to do anything. (definately the best way if you want the insurance to continue but don't need the hassle of confirming)
Also ask for details of if/when you authorised a continuing payment facility. Without Barclays having that, they should not have held onto your card details. Don't be fobbed off, and please don't stress yourself when you come up against the host of jumped-up penpushers who are employed by these companies to bully us!! Drop in that you suspect "fraudulent transaction","theft of my finances" etc, put the wind up them and they'll sort it out. Barclays will soon cancel the policy if they find there's no money in it, use the same type of phrases to them & they'll see you're no pushover!
Good luck.

Steve1981

auto renewing on a third party card doesnt sound right though does it

Errata

Sorry that your uncle is very ill, and wish him a peaceful end of life.
As the insurance will only be a couple of hundred quid and you are his executor I suggest that you bill his estate for the money you've paid out for his insurance.
This will give you peace of mind as you won't have to waste energy and time in trying to sort it all out now. You can use that energy and time to concentrate on your uncle's final few weeks.

beverly_hills

Rewind please Seldon.....who said anything about ranting???? This is purely your interpretation which is totally wrong. Money was taken/released without authorisation....are you saying that is not a fraudulent transaction??
If your c/card were to give me money just because I asked for it...would that not be theft of your finances?? What baseless accusations are you talking about?? I'm looking at the facts as OP stated them. If this does have to be escalated within the firm or referred to the fos, it will show all possible action has been taken to resolve the issue amicably. Why should you think anyone is being expected to go the extra mile...They're being asked to simply do their jobs correctly! Returning money removed unlawfully is not doing a favour ---it's simply doing what's right!
Too many people these days are just too scared to stand up for their rights, causing themselves great disctess. I'm simply advising OP to be assertive and accurate, and not to be bullied!

dzug1

beverly_hills wrote: »

Rewind please Seldon.....who said anything about ranting???? This is purely your interpretation which is totally wrong. Money was taken/released without authorisation....are you saying that is not a fraudulent transaction??

But authorisation WAS given - that's the whole point. Maybe unwittingly, but OP did give authorisation for the card to be used in a previous year, and that authorisation is carried over to new incarnations of the card. And most insurers auto-renew.

OP - is your uncle still capable of signing a letter you prepare for him? If so that may be the best way out.

foggytown

beverly_hills wrote: »

Rewind please Seldon.....who said anything about ranting???? This is purely your interpretation which is totally wrong. Money was taken/released without authorisation....are you saying that is not a fraudulent transaction??
If your c/card were to give me money just because I asked for it...would that not be theft of your finances?? What baseless accusations are you talking about?? I'm looking at the facts as OP stated them. If this does have to be escalated within the firm or referred to the fos, it will show all possible action has been taken to resolve the issue amicably. Why should you think anyone is being expected to go the extra mile...They're being asked to simply do their jobs correctly! Returning money removed unlawfully is not doing a favour ---it's simply doing what's right!
Too many people these days are just too scared to stand up for their rights, causing themselves great disctess. I'm simply advising OP to be assertive and accurate, and not to be bullied!

Amen. "Polite" doesn't work very well these days with insurers who are driven to maximise profits at anyone's expense. If they feel they can run over you - they will. Nobody in these companies "thinks" any more. Nobody is empowered to go "against" their cynical company policy.

dunstonh

Money was taken/released without authorisation

You are working on an incorrect assumption. They have automatic renewal on their policy which is agreed at the start. So, it was taken with authorisation.

I'm simply advising OP to be assertive and accurate, and not to be bullied!

If you are going to attempt to be accurate then make sure you are accurate.

foggytown

dunstonh wrote: »

You are working on an incorrect assumption. They have automatic renewal on their policy which is agreed at the start. So, it was taken with authorisation.


If you are going to attempt to be accurate then make sure you are accurate.

OK, then, let's BE "accurate"!

The expiring insurance contract was between the OP's uncle and Barclay's. It was HIS policy - not the OP's. Therefore, it follows that any agreement to an auto-renewal provision contained in that policy would be between the uncle and Barclay's.

There was NO agreement (actual or implied) between the OP and Barclay's to take the premium for renewal from her CC - especially from her new CC. Just because she had paid the premium for the expiring policy doesn't mean she would be obligating herself to do so again. The OP has no contract with - and therefore no obligation to - Barclays.

Spruance

Oh dear! I appear to have stirred up a hornet's nest here. Please don't fall out with each other on my account. It's just not worth it.

Well, sad to say, uncle passed away in the early hours of Saturday morning, 31st July 2010, and within the next day or so I will be in possession of the Death Certificate, and Executor's Powers (makes me sound like Superman!) so Barclays will have no option but to take notice of me then.

In the meantime I had spoken to the hospital last Friday and they said that they would draft a letter for me to collect and pass on (I suppose saving the poor hard up NHS the price of a stamp!). Later the same day my uncle's consultant had a chat with us about his (poor) prognosis and once she fully understood the situation with Barclays she asked her secretary to retype it there and then and so I had the (sealed) letter in my possession within a matter of minutes, and thus sent this off by recorded mail along with, but under separate cover, a suitably calm and collected explanation from me.

It is perhaps too early yet to expect a response but if I haven't heard anything by the time I am in possession of the death certificate I will phone them again.

The sheer irony is that if last year's policy had been paid for by my uncle's 'old fashioned' method of cash or cheque, then it would have been impossible for Barclays to auto renew it. So thus I do feel aggrieved that they are targetting people that pay my modern means, hoping no doubt that once the policy is up and running, it will not be challenged.

Just coming back to something that brummiedevil mentioned; yes I did send a copy of the DVLA change of ownership confirmation (dated 29th April 2010) to Barclays along with the copy of the vehicle registration document that I scanned on 23rd April 2010 showing the new keeper's details. Given that the insurance renewal date wasn't until 23rd July 2010, or exactly three months later, I see no reason why Barclays should not grant a full refund.

The other gripe against Barclays is a procedural one. Obviously they accept that policyholders die from time to time, and they must also realise that relatives will contact them with perhaps only sketchy information. If the young lady I had spoken to last week had delivered the Data Protection speech but then accepted what I was saying at face value and explained clearly what was required I probably wouldn't have posted anything on here about it. Indeed I would contrast their attitude to that of our local borough council who were quite happy to apply a full Council Tax exemption to my uncle's property with immediate effect just from me quoting details from his bill over the phone. So, maybe Barclays need to brush up on the PR side of things and revise their call centre script.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone for their input and with luck this will soon be resolved.

Spruance

foggytown

Spruance wrote: »

Oh dear! I appear to have stirred up a hornet's nest here. Please don't fall out with each other on my account. It's just not worth it.


Spruance

Think nothing of it. There are a few in this forum who seem to take on the role of "apologist" for the insurance industry.

My condolences.