Motor Insurance renewed by Barclays for dying man!

Spruance

I have posted elsewhere on this forum about the plight of my 86 year old uncle who is very gravely ill in hospital and not expected to last very much longer.(qv: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2621807 )


He has been seriously ill since the end of March 2010 but before this was a fully independent person living alone (with regular family oversight) in a semi detached house with a large garden and three greenhouses. He had his own car but mainly just for local use and his weekly supermarket shopping.

He was always fiercely independent and did not like to accept offers of assistance from the family although we did help him with his garden and unfortunately as it has transpired, last year I helped him get a better deal on his car insurance, or so it then seemed. (If I had only had a crystal ball etc).

My uncle had never been interested in having a credit card but I had no qualms about paying for the new Barclays policy on mine as he immediately repaid me in cash and it meant that he made a substantial saving on his former broker-arranged policy.

When he fell ill at the end of March 2010 he soon realised that he would be unable to keep the car on and so transferred ownership to another relation (my cousin). It was all documented correctly and the registration document slip was forwarded to DVLA who subsequently sent written confirmation of the change of ownership with a note to say that this confirmation should be retained as evidence of the change. My cousin then took out his own insurance policy on the vehicle.

Nothing was done about cancelling the old policy as it was presumed that this would lapse on expiry (as indeed always happens with policies that I have taken out with various providers over the last 30 odd years) and it was felt that any refund due would be absorbed by any cancellation fee.


That was that as far as anyone was concerned but today (29th July 2010) when I carried out a routine check on my uncle's house, I noticed a bulky envelope from Barclays in the letterbox. Significantly this wasn't there when I visited yesterday.


I brought it home and opened it and was astounded to see that Barclays had renewed the policy for another year, and taken payment from my own credit card. This despite the fact that I have a re-issued (Tesco Mastercard) credit card this year with different expiry date and different last four digits. Having had no contact whatsoever with Barclays until todays protest call I fail to understand how on earth they managed to get the new card information. After all the very few online sites with whom I entrust my credit card details requested - without exception - that I upload my new details when the old card expired. To add insult to injury the policy document received today, 29th July 2010 stated that payment would be taken yesterday 28th July 2010 so that's notice of minus one day.


I spoke to Tesco Personal Finance to query the transaction but they said that I really needed to speak to Barclays in the first instance, but they said that they would make a note that I was disputing the transaction. Fair enough I thought, and so phoned Barclays to discuss the situation with them.


I reasoned that Barclays would fully understand the situation as being a major player in the insurance industry this must surely have happened before, and indeed they said it had. The problem however seems to be an over adherence to the Jobsworth mantra. Having explained the situation regarding my uncle's deteriorating health I was first asked to get a letter issued by the hospital which my uncle should countersign. I wanted to explode with rage at this point but managed to retain my composure and explained for the umpteenth time that my uncle is dying and is currently slipping in and out of consciousness, not knowing where he is and barely recognising close family members. There is absolutely know way that he can communicate or understand what is going on and I fail to understand why Barclays are being so awkward about this. From the sound of things it would be easier to cancel the policy - at least from Barclays inflexible standpoint - if my uncle would obligingly die straight away, as then all that would be needed would be a copy of the death certificate.:mad:


The ward staff where my uncle is currently being cared for hardly have time to look after the urgent needs of the patients let alone writing pointless letters to Barclays. After all according to Barclays standpoint if my uncle - heaven forbid - should slip into a coma, then I can expect to be paying his annual motor insurance renewal in perpetuity.


I can appreciate that Barclays call centre staff have a very narrow remit, and although my call was referred to a supervisor, I felt that I was just banging my head against the wall.


It looks like I will have to use the usual fallback option and write to Barclays CEO, in the hope that he at least has a modicum of common sense. I have enough emotional stress to deal with at the moment without being persecuted by Barclays.


I just wondered if any of the very helpful people on here could suggest an alternative strategy?


Spruance

Judas

Tbh you are completely out of order.

Firstly automatic renewal is common in the terms and isnt anything wrong
Secondly you could be anyone. Barclays have legal obligations and fraudsters are quite able to come up with sob stories. There are legal mechanisms in place for situations like this (i.e POA ; Executor of estate; Hospital letters/courts etc). Instead of blaming barclays why do you or someone else not use "common sense" and get POA urgently as a lot could happen before he dies that needs access to information you wont otherwise get!

Spruance

Judas.

Well no, I am not completely out of order. I accept that Barclays are in a difficult position but as they freely admit that this is not an uncommon occurence I think they could have been rather more obliging.

Of course I suppose I should have taken the easy way out, and simply pretended to be my uncle since I know all of his personal details, have his house key and full access to his property. I could even have used his phone to make the call.

How silly of me not to take the easy but dishonest way out.

I don't have POA as the speed of onset of his illness meant that there was no opportunity to put this in place. Should the fateful day arise however I am a named executor as I am sure you will be delighted to hear.

Spruance

Spruance

Thanks Selden.

Yes we have unfortunately been in what my uncle's consultant refers to as a 'downward spiral' since he had to undergo emergency bowel surgery on 31st May 2010. Since then he has had an almost permanent urine infection which has caused constant confusion and which naturally prevented us getting the required confirmation of his mental accuity for the POA.

It is very sad to look at it this way but it is really now just a matter of time before the end, not least because in a rare lucid moment today he has refused certain treatment necessary to keep him alive, instructions which obviously the hospital are legally obliged to follow.

I have previously looked into the option of becoming a court appointed deputy but I believe that this can be quite costly and as we are likely talking about a matter of weeks at best I don't think it is worth considering.

However, I am named in my uncle's will as an executor so that option at least is available as a last resort.

As for the car itself, I have the DVLA acknowledgement letter - dated 29th April 2010 - confirming change of ownership and as the new owner/keeper is my cousin, I should also be able to get details of his insurance policy (for the same vehicle). As such as you rightly point out, there has been no risk associated with the vehicle for some time and certainly at no time during the validity of the current policy.

Of course had Barclays given advance notice of the payment debit rather than doing so after the event this problem may have been avoided.

I will hold back from the CEO for now then and try the contact postal address.

Spruance

olly300

There is nothing stopping you evoking the complaints process and writing a letter to Barclays enclosing with it a letter from the consultant to prove that your uncle is ill as Selden said.

brummiedevil

Spruance wrote: »

Thanks Selden.

Yes we have unfortunately been in what my uncle's consultant refers to as a 'downward spiral' since he had to undergo emergency bowel surgery on 31st May 2010. Since then he has had an almost permanent urine infection which has caused constant confusion and which naturally prevented us getting the required confirmation of his mental accuity for the POA.

It is very sad to look at it this way but it is really now just a matter of time before the end, not least because in a rare lucid moment today he has refused certain treatment necessary to keep him alive, instructions which obviously the hospital are legally obliged to follow.

I have previously looked into the option of becoming a court appointed deputy but I believe that this can be quite costly and as we are likely talking about a matter of weeks at best I don't think it is worth considering.

However, I am named in my uncle's will as an executor so that option at least is available as a last resort.

As for the car itself, I have the DVLA acknowledgement letter - dated 29th April 2010 - confirming change of ownership and as the new owner/keeper is my cousin, I should also be able to get details of his insurance policy (for the same vehicle). As such as you rightly point out, there has been no risk associated with the vehicle for some time and certainly at no time during the validity of the current policy.

Of course had Barclays given advance notice of the payment debit rather than doing so after the event this problem may have been avoided.

I will hold back from the CEO for now then and try the contact postal address.

Spruance

If you get a copy of the letter from the DVLA that states that your uncle is no longer the owner and registered keeper and send that in with a covering letter, providing this is prior to the renewal date, the insurance will be backdated to renewal with no charges, especially if you send in a covering letter explaining the circumstances.

As has been previously stated, the insurance companies have to have proof of the fact that your uncle is ill and unable to contact them himself and that would need to be in the proof of a letter from the consultant/hospital as without this you could be anybody.

If you want any more info re Barclays PM me.

Hope this helps.:)

robpw2

im sorry but barclays do not have a crystal ball, they had no idea that your unlce was ill/ is dying as no one informed them ...

dogbot

TBH the policy should have been canceled when ownership of the vehicle was transfered - your uncle no longer had any insurable interest so the policy was (and the renewed policy is) void - point this out to Barclays (who arn't the actual insurer by the way, it is just Barclays branded) in your letter of complaint and hope for the best.

By not notifying them of the change of material facts (i.e. the change of ownership) your uncle (as the policyholder) is in breach of the contract. You see, the thing is, as they are one of the last insurers on record for the car, then as things stand if your cousin had an accident and was, for some reason, uninsured (e.g. some problem with payment, whatever) then "Barclays" could well end up having to pay out for the claim if the policy was still in force, even if it WAS invalid.

Good luck, hopefully you will be able to get the premium refunded.

foggytown

Judas wrote: »

Tbh you are completely out of order.

Firstly automatic renewal is common in the terms and isnt anything wrong

There isn't anything wrong with a cynical ploy to let policyholders fall into unwanted or unnecessary renewals?

qazitory

foggytown wrote: »

There isn't anything wrong with a cynical ploy to let policyholders fall into unwanted or unnecessary renewals?

I don't think he is saying it is right, but to be fair the insurance should have been cancelled when the car was sold which would have stopped this happening. I'm sure it's illegal to insure the same car twice anyway?

It's unfortunate that your uncle is ill, but personally I would write a letter to your credit card company to say the transaction was no authorised. Also I would write to Barclays to explain that your uncle is ill and that you are dealing with his affairs.

Automatic renewals are very common place, I think all my policies in the last few years have come under this?

Badger_Lady

As some have said - the key point here is that the car is doubly-insured, and has been since March. Barclays will, if this is explained in writing and signed by a relevant person, refund (minus in-contract charges) back to that date.

They should have been informed at the time, but it's understandable that it may have been missed given the various people involved and their individual priorities.

Simply detail the new owner of the car, the fact that they are the registered keeper and high-level information about that person's insurance on the vehicle. Then apologise for failing to inform them at the time and politely request a refund on the void policy.