Applying for council housing when there is a previous re-possetion?

boo1

Sorry, I might have missed a bit but did you hand the keys back to the Council when you left the property or did you just go? I work for a HA and if someone leaves without returning the keys we go to Court and get an Outright Possession Order forthwith. However, in the time that it takes to get a hearing arrears continue to accrue, court costs get added to the debt, and Housing Benefit obviously don't pay if the property is empty.

terryw

It will be of interest to get a definite answer.

Reading through the thread again, I think this is a possible scenario of what happened:

1. Your dad was the tenant and unfortunately died.

2. You then made a claim for succession, and it probable that someone looked at the rent account
and verbally informed you that the rent was up to date. Because it was at that date.

3. But your claim for succession because you stated that you had lived there for over a year, flagged up that your dad had never informed the council that you were living there.

4. Therefore his claim for housing benefit was incorrect because there should have been a non-dependant deduction and the housing benefit was recovered from the council rent people. This led to the rent being in arrears.

If I am correct with my theory, it is perhaps a touch ironic that your claim to succession was the reason for the council realizing that the housing benefit claim of your dad's was not correct.

terryw

boo1 wrote: »

Sorry, I might have missed a bit but did you hand the keys back to the Council when you left the property or did you just go? I work for a HA and if someone leaves without returning the keys we go to Court and get an Outright Possession Order forthwith. However, in the time that it takes to get a hearing arrears continue to accrue, court costs get added to the debt, and Housing Benefit obviously don't pay if the property is empty.

That is certainly another possibility.

donny909

boo1 wrote: »

Sorry, I might have missed a bit but did you hand the keys back to the Council when you left the property or did you just go? I work for a HA and if someone leaves without returning the keys we go to Court and get an Outright Possession Order forthwith. However, in the time that it takes to get a hearing arrears continue to accrue, court costs get added to the debt, and Housing Benefit obviously don't pay if the property is empty.

I'd not fully thought of that myself as you kind of got me thinking about things from another viewpoint.

No I never handed the key back (yes foolish I know) but I did tell the council verbally (not that there would be a phone record after this long) that as they were pretty much refusing to deal with my complaint over the debt I would not be keeping the property as they had altered the tenancy beyond what was said and mentioned prior to signing (no debt prior to signing) and they could have it back. Or something along those lines anyways.

It's also worth noting that they had issued papers to go to court about 2 weeks (if I recall correctly) before I left the property but that I left the property about a before it went to court. So it must be certain that me leaving the property cant have been the reason they went to court for repossetion. Plus it cant have been to do with accumilated rent etc from the point of signing the tenancy as they were aware I'd be applying for housing benefit etc. Plus there was a period of about 2 weeks where I'd not have been liable for rent as the roof on the block was blown off in bad wind we had near 4 years ago and it was near 2 weeks before anyone could move back in.

If I recall correctly, I informed the council I'd be applying for housing benefit once I returned to work after leave(due to dads death), they billed me for my dads debt less than a week after signing, I refused to pay anything (even though they had been informed I'd be applying for housing benefit to help pay the rent) untill they dealt with the debt they put onto the tenancy that since then I have always claimed I'm not legally liable for, Had a number of letters off council that seemed like they ignored what I sent them and talked about on the phone on the issue with them, roof came off the flats so no possable contact between us for 2 weeks as we were not allowed access. Court papers over arrears a week later, told them as they ignored issues I raised or seemingly refused to explain or verify policy on succession regulation I would be leaving the property within a week.

donny909

I've been looking at what I think to be the relevent housing act (1985) and there is no mention of a successor that was not being on the previous tenancy being responsable for any debt. But is only responsable for any rent from the date the person dies.

I found this with reguards to the scotish housing act which is probably the same as for england and wales.

There is no provision in the Housing (Scotland) Act 2001 for the rent arrears of the deceased tenant to pass to the succeeding tenant. The arrears are a debt of the deceased, which should be paid out of the estate of the tenant. Where someone succeeds to a tenancy they will only be liable for the rent from after the tenants death.

If that holds true then any reposetion the council has been granted is possably unlawfull on the basis they used an unlawfull debt as part of the reason for posetion.

I know I still have to wait to get hole of someone in the right council department to speak to them about it but it is starting to look like they acted unlawfully against me if what I've posted to be correct to memory. Not saying I dont owe them money because I do. But wander if what I've researched to be true then also wander if the council will ever find my tenancy details therefor etc.

Wee_Willy_Harris

donny909 wrote: »

No I never handed the key back

Plus it cant have been to do with accumilated rent etc from the point of signing the tenancy as they were aware I'd be applying for housing benefit etc. Plus there was a period of about 2 weeks where I'd not have been liable for rent as the roof on the block was blown off in bad wind we had near 4 years ago and it was near 2 weeks before anyone could move back in.

If I recall correctly, I informed the council I'd be applying for housing benefit once I returned to work after leave(due to dads death),

Your rent liability and your HB claim are two different things. Even if you don't have a HB claim running, you are still liable for rent. The roof issue also won't effect the rent liability, it just means that the council would have to provide temp accommodation if you needed it. Your rent would still have been due. To terminate a tenancy you either give notice (in writing) or the LL gets a court order. If they get a court order, your rent liability continues until the court decree that the tenancy has ended.

Wee_Willy_Harris

donny909 wrote: »

I've been looking at what I think to be the relevent housing act (1985) and there is no mention of a successor that was not being on the previous tenancy being responsable for any debt. But is only responsable for any rent from the date the person dies.

I found this with reguards to the scotish housing act which is probably the same as for england and wales.



If that holds true then any reposetion the council has been granted is possably unlawfull on the basis they used an unlawfull debt as part of the reason for posetion.

I know I still have to wait to get hole of someone in the right council department to speak to them about it but it is starting to look like they acted unlawfully against me if what I've posted to be correct to memory. Not saying I dont owe them money because I do. But wander if what I've researched to be true then also wander if the council will ever find my tenancy details therefor etc.

If your father was an "assured tenant" as per the 1988 Housing Act, then the arrears may be passed to the person suceeding the tenancy.

terryw

Donny,

You really must calm down and take a reality check.

Differences between the law in Scotland and England are immense. It is absolutely pointless assuming that they are probably the same.

As regards the possession, regardless of your personal problems, there was a hearing date at court. You appear to have been served with the papers (at your last known address). You knew that this was going on. The hearing date was your opportunity to contest it. You lost the case. The fact that you decided to abandon the property and not even bother to return the keys is hardly going to work in your favour.

Forget about conspiracies at the council.

Contact the council. Find out how much you owe (for whatever reason). Pay the debt. Go on bended knee and ask for another house from the council because of your current situation.

A previous poster mentioned that you were offered a very cheap opportunity to acquire the property.
£1000 and you got a cheap secure council dwelling for the rest of your life. But instead you decided to walk away without even handing back the keys or bothering with the court proceedings. And it is now come back to stop you getting another dwelling from this council.

Millions (and I do not exaggerate) of people would be more than happy to pay £1000 for the right to have a council house for the rest of their lives. Regardless of the rights or wrongs on the part of the council, you have not acted in your own best interests. Try to help yourself.

When you just walked away, the council were put to enormous expense. They still have to get a possession order before entering purely to protect themselves. They have to pay for lawyers and court fees and bailiffs and locksmiths. £1000 is cheap.

bryanb

Thanks Terry, I was just going to post something similar.

donny909

Wee_Willy_Harris wrote: »

If your father was an "assured tenant" as per the 1988 Housing Act, then the arrears may be passed to the person suceeding the tenancy.

What, even if the act does'nt actually mention liability for rent arrears?. Surely in which case the debt of a deceased person is therefor the same as in other cases in that only the estate is liable?. Or is the word "may" taken out of context in that it could be said the successor is only requested to take on the debt if it cant be forced on the successor directly as part of the housing act?.

I dont mean to sound like I'm grasping at straws here, but there can be a number of ways to interprate the housing act.

Donny,

You really must calm down and take a reality check.

Differences between the law in Scotland and England are immense. It is absolutely pointless assuming that they are probably the same.

As regards the possession, regardless of your personal problems, there was a hearing date at court. You appear to have been served with the papers (at your last known address). You knew that this was going on. The hearing date was your opportunity to contest it. You lost the case. The fact that you decided to abandon the property and not even bother to return the keys is hardly going to work in your favour.

Forget about conspiracies at the council.

Contact the council. Find out how much you owe (for whatever reason). Pay the debt. Go on bended knee and ask for another house from the council because of your current situation.

A previous poster mentioned that you were offered a very cheap opportunity to acquire the property.
£1000 and you got a cheap secure council dwelling for the rest of your life. But instead you decided to walk away without even handing back the keys or bothering with the court proceedings. And it is now come back to stop you getting another dwelling from this council.

Millions (and I do not exaggerate) of people would be more than happy to pay £1000 for the right to have a council house for the rest of their lives. Regardless of the rights or wrongs on the part of the council, you have not acted in your own best interests. Try to help yourself.

When you just walked away, the council were put to enormous expense. They still have to get a possession order before entering purely to protect themselves. They have to pay for lawyers and court fees and bailiffs and locksmiths. £1000 is cheap.

Thanks for the post terryw

The councils case for going to court was partly due to the arrears mainly occoured by my dads debt that I refused to accept and pay. Part of the reason as said was as they never informed by of the debt untill after signing. And in all honesty I'd have had a claim on the tenancy anyway. So why would I or have to accept a debt of my dads?. The council decided to goto court to evict me mainly because I refused to accept that debt. My walking away from the place was down to a number of factors, including my dad having died & not in the right fram of mind. At no point was I evicted for leaving the place as the council decided to go to court before then.

And I'm sure I did mention on this thread that I did try to resolve the matter with the council over my dads debt and weather I was liable for a number of week. It was the council who did not want to compremise of explain the situation properly or the housing act to show where I was liable for the debt. The council seemed to have the attitude of accept the debt pay it or we will evict you. When I wanted an explanation and see a stated policy\housing act to show I was liable, for which they never wanted to do. At that point in my life I felt like I had no choice than to do what I did and I was certainly not in the frame of mind to fight them ruther when I'd already spent about a month doing so.

I am going to make an appoitment to see the council to try and get to the bottom of things. But untill or if they dig everything up from there files there is little point in doing so because I'd need to examine everything and take propper advice on where I stand.

And having read both the 1985 & 1988 housing acts I'm still struggling to find the section where it mentions about liability of debt upon the successor.