Applying for council housing when there is a previous re-possetion?

jed1_2

arby wrote: »

but he proved he was living there for years during his dad's tenancy. that would make him jointly responsible for the bills

According to whom? Why is he jointly responsible for debts run up by someone else before he became a tenant?

donny909

Wee_Willy_Harris wrote: »

Were you living in your father's property immediately prior to his death.
If not, were you clasiming HB elsewhere (you mention another council house)?
When you left your fathers address, where did you go?

I'd not thought of that aspect untill this was posted about was I actually living at my dads prior to him dying. The partner recalls that for about 3 months before my dad died I spent all of my spare time with her. And in fact I was at my dads for less time per week than I was my partners place. And I was not claiming housing benefit when I was staying at my partners either as a previous poster was asking. And when I did leave my dads place (about a month after the tenancy was signed) I moved in with my partner where she was staying at the time.

Weather or not this changes things I don't know?. But talking to the partner she recalls and jogged my mind that the only thing I provided the council with prior to signing the tenancy was a single bank statement to my dads address in my name which only covered about a 6 week period about 12 months prior to my dad dying that they never even taken a copy of to memory. And at no point did they ever try to verify weather on not I actually had been living at my dads place since the date of that bank statement up to the point he died.

I don't go against the fact that my dad by default run up housing benefit fraud\rent arrears. But there does seem to be a slightly mixed opinion of if i'm legally responsable for that debt. If not then it has to be illigal for the way the council tried and did enforce that debt onto a tenancy I signed as 100% my debt covering a period prior to be being responsable for the tenancy?.

Wee_Willy_Harris

You need to find out:
Where this £1000 debt came from. (Why was there a HB overpayment)
Any other arrears as a result of your abandonment.

At the moment, you don't seem to know what the reason for the overpayment was, and this need clarification so that you can question it.

squinty

jed1 wrote: »

Squinty are you sure?

To be honest - no I'm not.

I've has a trawl around today, and found nothing definitive. Ignore my earlier post !

dexter_fan

It is hard to say without knowing all the facts, but here are some issues to think about. I am not being judgemental, just playing devils advocate:

• to succeed a tenancy, you need to prove you were living at your fathers property for 12 months. Succession can only happen once. If you are now claiming that you did not live there full time for 12 months, this could be classed as fraud to gain a tenancy.
• Your fathers HB stops when he dies. Therefore when you signed for the tenancy, you would be responsible for at least the full rent from the date your father died rather than the date you signed the tenancy, as you were claiming that you were already living their full time. Could this account for some/all of the £1,000?
• You are stating that you were not technically re-possessed, but that you left of your own accord. This may mean that you made yourself intentionally homeless.
• If you had not made application for the tenancy, and had just handed it back to the council, you would not have been liable for your fathers debts for HB. You would also not have jumped the housing queue for a property.
• £1,000 to jump the housing queue could be seen by some as a bargain...............

csnann

Did you give notice to the council that you were leaving? If you just packed up and left, I think they would have had to get a court order to reposses the house and you would be liable for the rent until they could legally declare the tenancy ended.

If you succeeded (took over) the tenancy, that is a different matter to starting a completely new tenancy. When you signed the agreement, you will have agreed to take on the debts too. Did you actually read any of the documents the council gave you at the time?

donny909

Right, found out that what they put onto my tenancy was deffo a housing benefit overpayment my dad applied for fraudulently. And to answer another post I did leave the property of my own choosing before the council would of gone to court as they simply refused to deal with my complaint and I did'nt want the hassle after my dad had just died.

I'm not 100% sure on weather or not I signed a new tenency or succeded my dads tenancy. But as I recall the council said the only way I could take the tenancy was to prove I had been living there for at least about 12 months before my dad died. So it could be either but possably a succession of tenancy. But seeing as after several years of it being in my dads name then the original terms would have altered a lot so prehaps it would have had to have been a new tenancy?.

Either way at no point did the council ever mention (either verbally or in writing) or to memory was there mention in the basic tenancy aggrement that if I took the tenancy I'd be taking on any debt attatched to that tenancy. In fact they made a point of saying that my dad had no debt attached to the tenancy when I enquired about taking it over and later signed the tenancy.

Now if my dad was alive and simply left the property and then I wanted to keep the place I can see where the council may have had a valid point.

But my dad had died and I fail to see how under law or any council (Flintshire council by the way) policy there point of forcing a dead mans debt onto me in the way they did to be legally valid.

In thinking there is no way they could have pre-informed me prior to signing the tenancy I'd have to pay back any of my dads housing benefit as they would not have been able to calculate any such overpayment untill they had proof on a period on which I lived with my dad or known in advance of my signing that my dad had not have been entitled to the amounht he was claiming.

Plus at that time I was only working part time anyways so he would have probably still have got the housing benefits or most of it?. As seeing as they never asked me for proof of income I cant see how they could have possably have come to the amount they did without talking to me to enquire of my circumstances which they never did?.

poppysarah

donny909 wrote: »

But my dad had died and I fail to see how under law or any council (Flintshire council by the way) policy there point of forcing a dead mans debt onto me in the way they did to be legally valid. .

I think that's the point of succeding the tenancy though - it becomes yours rather than you just being asigned a whole new one of your own.

Yes it seems very unfair they didn't tell you they were landing you with some debt.

donny909

poppysarah wrote: »

I think that's the point of succeding the tenancy though - it becomes yours rather than you just being asigned a whole new one of your own.

Yes it seems very unfair they didn't tell you they were landing you with some debt.

But does'nt the fact they informed me prior to signing and on the day of signing, that there was no debt on the tenancy make what they did illigal and fraudulent itself?. And even then could it not be fairly argued that the debt was that, debt from housing benefit than rent arrears itself?.

Also at what I recall was rent of about £65 per week and housing benefit of £60 per week, where did they get the figure that they came to?. As £60 per week over 52 weeks is what, £3120 and not £1000 odd they claimed.

I know this may be confusing the issue but if I have verbal statement from the council on at least 2 occasions that there is no debt on the tenancy up to the point of me signing it and then be told after signing yes there is but refused explanation of how the figure was calculated and why they decided to inform me after signing, it has to be illigal or at least give me a right to end the tenancy due to there actions without oweing any of my dads debt?.

I dont mind so much paying any debt (though I'd still argue that morally due to treatment from the council they should wipe that off) for the period of 4-5 weeks I did have the tenancy. But not for a period the council stated there was no debt on.

Wee_Willy_Harris

You claimed to have been living with your father when you weren't, and in so doing fraudulantly succeeded to his tenancy. Now that this fraud has come back to bite you, you seem to want to accuse the council of fraud. Were you on your fathers HB claim? Were you on your partners HB claim? Were you on any HB claim? In fact, were you ever entitled to HB anywhere? I still have absolutely no idea where this HB debt came from or why HB felt the award was wrong/fraudulant. Perhaps if that was established, your liability could be better examined. However, it may equally be true that your various twists and convolutions may be at the route of the issue.