We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.

This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

Debate House Prices


In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non MoneySaving matters are no longer permitted. This includes wider debates about general house prices, the economy and politics. As a result, we have taken the decision to keep this board permanently closed, but it remains viewable for users who may find some useful information in it. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The Forum now has a brand new text editor, adding a bunch of handy features to use when creating posts. Read more in our how-to guide

Axe falls on NHS services

1234579

Comments

  • tincans
    tincans Posts: 124 Forumite
    Generali wrote: »

    I find it odd that many people seem to think it better that most people get something that is quite poor rather than the poor getting something better than that and the majority doing even better.

    This is the fallacy though isn't it.

    The likely choice is a better health system for 1/2 the population and a worse one for the other 1/2 (or some other fraction).

    Now this may be preferable to the post code lottery we have now, or the rationing by waiting list thats heading down the track, but it's pure fiction to suggest that having a mix of provision via health insurance is going to magically improve healthcare for everyone.
    Why - because despit all the bluster, there is not much evidence to suggest that the NHS is more inefficient than other countries.

    Much of the health inequalities in the UK are a function of wealth, smoking, drinking, obesity and past worklife.
  • tincans
    tincans Posts: 124 Forumite
    A._Badger wrote: »
    Not unless you are very young (which, of course, you may well be). BT was privatised in 1984. Prior to that, the UK had a Soviet-style
    supply-driven system of legendary wastefulness, providing little in the way of service.

    And, I'm afraid, you have also been misled about the railways. British Rail was an abomination. Your point about high prices is fair enough and it is generally accepted that Major's government got rail privatisation completely wrong. But reincarnating the money pit that was BR ('efficiency? what's that?') would be an absolute disaster.

    Would you really want a rail system dominated by Bob Crow and his like?


    I've travelled by train from Liverpool to London for over 25 years.
    Its probably only in the last 4 years that Virgin is better overall (speed of jny, punctuality, comfort, service etc) than British Rail was in between say 1984-1990.
  • A._Badger
    A._Badger Posts: 5,882 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    tincans wrote: »
    This is the fallacy though isn't it.

    The likely choice is a better health system for 1/2 the population and a worse one for the other 1/2 (or some other fraction).

    Now this may be preferable to the post code lottery we have now, or the rationing by waiting list thats heading down the track, but it's pure fiction to suggest that having a mix of provision via health insurance is going to magically improve healthcare for everyone.
    Why - because despit all the bluster, there is not much evidence to suggest that the NHS is more inefficient than other countries.

    Much of the health inequalities in the UK are a function of wealth, smoking, drinking, obesity and past worklife.

    Why is it always about 'inequalites' (save for that is what supporters of the monolithic state are taught to say)?

    If, as you claim, these are largely detemined outside the health system, then what matters in judging the NHS are outcomes.
  • StevieJ
    StevieJ Posts: 20,174 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    tincans wrote: »
    I've travelled by train from Liverpool to London for over 25 years.
    Its probably only in the last 4 years that Virgin is better overall (speed of jny, punctuality, comfort, service etc) than British Rail was in between say 1984-1990.

    I might give it another go then icon7.gif
    'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher
  • neverdespairgirl
    neverdespairgirl Posts: 16,501 Forumite
    carolt wrote: »


    Where we'd lived before, all women were offered free ultrasounds much earlier - I think it may have been c 7 weeks?

    that's unusual, I think, your later (DS) experience. I had scans at 8, 12, and 24 weeks, plus a is-this-baby-massive extra one at 35 weeks. Which was a waste of time, that 35 week one. They estimated his full-term weight to be 11.5lb (!!), but he was 8lb.
    ...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.
  • neverdespairgirl
    neverdespairgirl Posts: 16,501 Forumite
    carolt wrote: »

    I've worked in private sechools and sent my children to private nurseries, and been shocked at how the profit motive predominates in a way it just doesn't and can't in the public sector.

    Most private schools (don't know about nurseries) aren't profit making, though.

    BUPA, in this country the biggest private health care mob, is not-for-profit, too.
    ...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.
  • neverdespairgirl
    neverdespairgirl Posts: 16,501 Forumite
    Generali wrote: »
    It has consistently been my experience of the NHS (with exceptions) from Home Counties villages to some of the grottier bits of Central London. It has been so widespread that I can only assume that you have very low expectations.

    My NHS experience is all in London, but I agree with Carolt, it's been very good indeed. And I don't think I have very low expectations.
    ...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.
  • olly300
    olly300 Posts: 14,738 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Most private schools (don't know about nurseries) aren't profit making, though.
    That's because most of them are charities.
    I'm not cynical I'm realistic :p

    (If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)
  • neverdespairgirl
    neverdespairgirl Posts: 16,501 Forumite
    A._Badger wrote: »
    Not unless you are very young (which, of course, you may well be). BT was privatised in 1984.

    It wasn't before I was born, but I don't remember it - I was 5/6 when it was privatised, so phones weren't big on my list of priorities (-:
    ...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.
  • chucky
    chucky Posts: 15,170 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    My NHS experience is all in London, but I agree with Carolt, it's been very good indeed. And I don't think I have very low expectations.
    generally the ones i've vistied in London are ok - but you go to the one in Whitechapel and there a also couple in South London that are very dire too...
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 354.1K Banking & Borrowing
  • 254.3K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 455.3K Spending & Discounts
  • 247.1K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 603.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 178.3K Life & Family
  • 261.2K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.7K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.