Axe falls on NHS services

Shakethedisease

If Workcover aren't paying then you will be out of pocket if you get sick and seek treatment. My daughter needed (minor) dental surgery last year and that left us a couple of grand out of pocket IIRC. When I busted up my thumb playing soccer I ended up paying about $50 for painkillers and then perhaps $600 for physio.

And if you're ill already ? have a family pre-disposition to say diabetes, stroke, heart-diesase, breast cancer, have a risky hobby, or were born with a disability ? What about mental health problems ? They'll still insure you ? Are there different levels of insurance or is it 'one size fits all' ?

Or, recently made unemployed and on benefits and can't do the 'workcover' thing anymore ? Will it still cover ?

Sad to say it, but 'a couple of grand' for a minor dental procedure sounds pretty out of reach for a LOT of peeps in the UK. Did you just have it lying around ( no disprespect intended ) ?

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

And if you're ill already ? have a family pre-disposition to say diabetes, stroke, heart-diesase, breast cancer, have a risky hobby, or were born with a disability ? What about mental health problems ? They'll still insure you ? Are there different levels of insurance or is it 'one size fits all' ?

Or, recently made unemployed and on benefits and can't do the 'workforce' thing anymore ? Will it still cover ?

Sad to say it, but 'a couple of grand' for a minor dental procedure sounds pretty out of reach for a LOT of peeps in the UK. Did you just have it lying around ( no disprespect intended ) ?

Kids get covered by the state for most things. For example if my daughter hadn't had the private operation, she could have had the teeth removed (which I believe is the usual course of treatment in the NHS if you can find an NHS dentist).

I am covered by a mutual fund open to members of the teaching profession and their families to join. If you stop teaching you can still be a member. I wasn't asked any questions relating to my health. However, they restrict what you can claim in the first month/3 months/6 months/year.

I am covered under my health insurance for psychiatric consultation and automatically for 6 counselling sessions per year (Jan - Dec). The fund will pay for more if the need is there on an assessed basis otherwise there is also state cover for mental health (imperfect but mental health is very poorly provided for everywhere I know about).

There are probably a couple of hundred private, charity and mutual health insurance providers with many different levels of cover ranging from bare minimum (really little more than amulance cover) to stop paying the extra tax for not being insured up to some really gold plated stuff that pays you money if you're in hospital over your out of pocket expenses.

It was hard to get the money together to pay the medical bills (I was working at the time as a casual part-time uni tutor) but we scraped together a good chunk of it and the hospital very kindly allowed us to defer payment of some.

I have found the standard of treatment for the minor stuff to be far, far better than what the NHS provides and most likely that's because I'm paying something towards it so the system doesn't get swamped. My mother-in-law needs a knee replacement. She saw a specialist within a week of being diagnosed and was offered to have the surgery within a fortnight. What sort of wait would those have on the NHS? 3 months and 3 months?

Health care must be rationned like everything else as it is not unlimited and certainly isn't free. The only discussion is how to ration.

Degenerate

A._Badger wrote: »

Maybe they've read the survival rates in our two countries?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560849/UK-cancer-survival-rate-lowest-in-Europe.html

Just occasionally, it would be refreshing if political dogma gave way to reality.

It may not look good, but statistics like these do not necessarily tell the full story. Eg, lower five-year survival rates could be because of better diagnosis of cancer in the elderly.

carolt

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's too late for some to do anything about it or afford it.



I run a forum myself, primarily US posters ( which is why I'm up so late ).. and the things they post about the US healthcare system, make 'Sicko' look tame.

Ancedotals are just that. Everyone know's 'someone' who is the 'exception' to the rule or who re-inforces or seems to debunk a 'bad stereotype' that the thread is discussing.

Most of us the the UK have no concept of handing over cash for contraceptive pills, ultrasounds etc.. or in worst case scenarios, having to re-mortgage or even sell our homes if we have a rare, or very expensive treatments that need paying for. Thank goodness !( except for care homes for the elderly etc.. which is already being reversed anyway apparently).

Fact is, that once private heathcare becomes the 'norm'.. then healthcare in the Uk takes a step back to the days when children died because no-one had any money to pay the doctor. The NHS meant that was supposed to be a thing of the past.

Private healthcare as a policy only benefits the rich, lets make no bones about it. You get the very best of care.. but only if you can afford the 1000's of pounds needed to pay for it at the point of care or you have a very expensive insurance policy that covers it.

The rest of us 'normal' people couldn't begin to afford it, or the huge monthly insurance bills ..especially if something catastrophic happens.

I am very grateful I was born in the UK and not the US and our NHS is one of the reasons why.





No thank you !

Generally agree but have to pick you up on the bit in bold - who do you think buys all the condms for sale in chemists? - not all contraception is free.

Plus I was shocked when pregnant with my DS that I was told I could not have an ultrasound till 20 weeks - even though I was over 35 so at a higher risk, and even though I was worried I was carrying twins (I wasn't mercifully, but he was measured as being in the 99th centile at that point, so I had reason to be concerned!) our area did not offer ultrasounds until then.

Where we'd lived before, all women were offered free ultrasounds much earlier - I think it may have been c 7 weeks?

Anyway with my DS we paid to have it done privately - but it cost us lots to do so.

System

Tax breaks for private medical insurance policy holders please.

Generali

carolt wrote: »

Anyway with my DS we paid to have it done privately - but it cost us lots to do so.

Over here, private medicine is routine so needn't be expensive. For example, a 45 minute appointment with my physio was $65. I was unlucky because I was still in the exemption period for most of the treatment but the last couple I charged to the fund and ended up pay $28 each session.

Now the tax year is ended as my family's total treatment bill is over a certain figure ($1,000?) I can claim back a further 35% of that so will end up paying a net $18.20 for the weekly session.

Lots of Britons seem to think that the choice is between the NHS and the US system whereas in reality there are lots of reasonable ways to run a healthcare system, many of which provide a level of treatment that is better and much more pleasant to use than the NHS.

bendix

Any cuts to the NHS are completely welcome in my view. It is a national disgrace that the NHS is now the third or fourth largest employer in the world, behind the Chinese Army, the Indian State Railway company and Walmart. That a tiny nation of 60million can have an employer to rival the People's Liberation Army is utterly ridiculous.

princeofpounds

Lots of Britons seem to think that the choice is between the NHS and the US system whereas in reality there are lots of reasonable ways to run a healthcare system, many of which provide a level of treatment that is better and much more pleasant to use than the NHS.

True, there are lots of ways. For example, a common model in Europe is to have totally private provision of services based on insurance, but for that insurance cost to be partially (or completely if you are poor) covered by a government subsidy. So you have universal social healthcare but you don't have a state-owned enterprise providing it.

The NHS generally speaking gives fairly good outcomes and is fairly expensive, but it's not bad value relative to other countries' healthcare systems if you look at it from the point of view of healthcare spend relative to GDP (which seems to indicate that spend is not the most important factor in terms of longevity - probably genetics, lifestyle and diet matter a lot more than all the medical care).

There appears to be something endemic about waste and ineffciency in all healthcare systems. I guess it's because the treatments are complex and different, and there is a high information asymmetry (meaning doctors can rip people off like car mechanics do), there is a low political willingness to tackle hard decision on resources, demand is always growing as new treatments proliferate and so on...

Generali

princeofpounds wrote: »

True, there are lots of ways. For example, a common model in Europe is to have totally private provision of services based on insurance, but for that insurance cost to be partially (or completely if you are poor) covered by a government subsidy. So you have universal social healthcare but you don't have a state-owned enterprise providing it.

The NHS generally speaking gives fairly good outcomes and is fairly expensive, but it's not bad value relative to other countries' healthcare systems if you look at it from the point of view of healthcare spend relative to GDP (which seems to indicate that spend is not the most important factor in terms of longevity - probably genetics, lifestyle and diet matter a lot more than all the medical care).

There appears to be something endemic about waste and ineffciency in all healthcare systems. I guess it's because the treatments are complex and different, and there is a high information asymmetry (meaning doctors can rip people off like car mechanics do), there is a low political willingness to tackle hard decision on resources, demand is always growing as new treatments proliferate and so on...

The thing I always noticed most about the NHS is how horrible it is to use.

The staff regularly treat patients as an irritation, the buildings are often dirty, dilapidated and old. You hang around for hours only to be told that you need to go on yet another waiting list, appointments seem to be on a 'take it or leave it' basis.

Having been to hospitals in Germany (as a visitor), France (patient and visitor) and Australia (patient and visitor) it seems it needn't be that way, yet (British) politicians will have you believe the NHS is the envy of the world!

MissMoneypenny

Shakethedisease wrote: »

And what's with all the Americans in the comments area sneering about the NHS ?

If you look on sites like uk-yankee, many are americans are looking for Brits to marry, so they can have free medical care. There is even a thread entitled something like, - did you look for a Brit for the NHS.