Axe falls on NHS services

carolt

Eek.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7908742/Axe-falls-on-NHS-services.html

Malcolm.

carolt wrote: »

Eek.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7908742/Axe-falls-on-NHS-services.html

People's standard of living it about to fall. Years of poor governance have taken their toll.
Unlike the Norweigans the UK has wasted north sea oil proceeds.

treliac

carolt wrote: »

Eek.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7908742/Axe-falls-on-NHS-services.html

Disturbing if true.

Shakethedisease

Very..sounds like 'efficency' savings may result in a lot of very upsetting scenarios, if true.

As well as sending more patients home to die, the paper said the savings would be made by admitting fewer terminally ill cancer patients to hospital because they were struggling to cope with symptoms such as pain.

And what's with all the Americans in the comments area sneering about the NHS ?

A._Badger

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Very..sounds like 'efficency' savings may result in a lot of very upsetting scenarios, if true.



And what's with all the Americans in the comments area sneering about the NHS ?

Maybe they've read the survival rates in our two countries?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560849/UK-cancer-survival-rate-lowest-in-Europe.html

Just occasionally, it would be refreshing if political dogma gave way to reality.

treliac

A._Badger wrote: »

Maybe they've read the survival rates in our two countries?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560849/UK-cancer-survival-rate-lowest-in-Europe.html

Doesn't look too good but at least we can all get treatment if we get ill.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

And what's with all the Americans in the comments area sneering about the NHS ?

Possibly don't want to share their access to healthcare with the poor?

A._Badger

treliac wrote: »

Doesn't look too good but at least we can all get treatment if we get ill.



Possibly don't want to share their access to healthcare with the poor?

You know, I get pretty tired of the twaddle peddled about the 'evils' of the US system. My mother in law, who died from cancer in the rural USA a few years ago, received far better treatment - free - than relatives of mine here in the UK who have suffered from the same disease.

The media in the UK (notably the BBC) have an agenda about the US healthcare system. Untill you have lived, worked or (best of all) practised in the US, it's probably best not to believe all that you are told.

Generali

At present the Uk Government spends about 50% of GDP. Given that if you increase taxes much more on businesses they will go bust or quit the country, the burden of extra tax has to go on individuals. Either you pay out around 60% of your income in one sort of tax or another or all departments must cut what they spend by a large amount.

These threads about benefits scroungers and so on are all very well but the fact is that almost nobody seems to want to take responsibility for their own health and education - if you leave these things up to someone else then sometimes they'll do things you don't like.

Mr_Mumble

The NHS as it stands now is an okay service but utterly unaffordable. The basics such as emergency and maternity care should be provided 'universally' by a slimmed down NHS but access to elective procedures, expensive drugs, most cosmetic surgery, IVF, physiotherapy and many other aspects of healthcare should be covered by insurance for anyone 18+.

The public sector is horrendous at allocating resources so the NHS shouldn't attempt to do so.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

And what's with all the Americans in the comments area sneering about the NHS ?

It was linked to by Drudge a couple of days ago.

treliac wrote: »

Possibly don't want to share their access to healthcare with the poor?

This gave me the mental image of Waitrose/M&S shoppers being forced to pay 10% of their income to access a diet of potato waffles and spaghetti hoops. It dumbfounds me why we don't follow the lessons of food provision where it is the poor who're over-provided for.

Generali wrote: »

These threads about benefits scroungers and so on are all very well but the fact is that almost nobody seems to want to take responsibility for their own health and education - if you leave these things up to someone else then sometimes they'll do things you don't like.

Education is a little different - most of the expense goes towards the young and the vast majority (even I a crazy Libertarian) believe in equal opportunity. Healthcare, outside the year of birth, has pretty much all the expenses shifted to those in old age who should have put aside some of their wealth to provide for this healthcare. Discussion about healthcare in Britain is ridiculously infantile - most seem to live in a la-la-land believing resources are unlimited.

Shakethedisease

but the fact is that almost nobody seems to want to take responsibility for their own health and education - if you leave these things up to someone else then sometimes they'll do things you don't like.

It's too late for some to do anything about it or afford it.

The media in the UK (notably the BBC) have an agenda about the US healthcare system. Untill you have lived, worked or (best of all) practised in the US, it's probably best not to believe all that you are told.

I run a forum myself, primarily US posters ( which is why I'm up so late ).. and the things they post about the US healthcare system, make 'Sicko' look tame.

Ancedotals are just that. Everyone know's 'someone' who is the 'exception' to the rule or who re-inforces or seems to debunk a 'bad stereotype' that the thread is discussing.

Most of us the the UK have no concept of handing over cash for contraceptive pills, ultrasounds etc.. or in worst case scenarios, having to re-mortgage or even sell our homes if we have a rare, or very expensive treatments that need paying for. Thank goodness !( except for care homes for the elderly etc.. which is already being reversed anyway apparently).

Fact is, that once private heathcare becomes the 'norm'.. then healthcare in the Uk takes a step back to the days when children died because no-one had any money to pay the doctor. The NHS meant that was supposed to be a thing of the past.

Private healthcare as a policy only benefits the rich, lets make no bones about it. You get the very best of care.. but only if you can afford the 1000's of pounds needed to pay for it at the point of care or you have a very expensive insurance policy that covers it.

The rest of us 'normal' people couldn't begin to afford it, or the huge monthly insurance bills ..especially if something catastrophic happens.

I am very grateful I was born in the UK and not the US and our NHS is one of the reasons why.

At least 15.3% of the population is completely uninsured,[1][2][3] and a substantial additional portion of the population (35%) is "underinsured", or not able to cover the costs of their medical needs.[4][5] More money per person is spent on health care in the United States than in any other nation in the world,[6][7] and a greater percentage of total income in the nation is spent on health care in the U.S. than in any United Nations member state]

Despite the fact that not all citizens are covered, the United States has the third highest public healthcare expenditure per capita.[8][9] A 2001 study in five states found that medical debt contributed to 62% of all personal bankruptcies.[10] Since then, health costs and the numbers of uninsured and underinsured have increased.[11]

No thank you !

Generali

Mr_Mumble wrote: »

The NHS as it stands now is an okay service but utterly unaffordable. The basics such as emergency and maternity care should be provided 'universally' by a slimmed down NHS but access to elective procedures, expensive drugs, most cosmetic surgery, IVF, physiotherapy and many other aspects of healthcare should be covered by insurance for anyone 18+.

The public sector is horrendous at allocating resources so the NHS shouldn't attempt to do so.

It was linked to by Drudge a couple of days ago.


This gave me the mental image of Waitrose/M&S shoppers being forced to pay 10% of their income to access a diet of potato waffles and spaghetti hoops. It dumbfounds me why we don't follow the lessons of food provision where it is the poor who're over-provided for.


Education is a little different - most of the expense goes towards the young and the vast majority (even I a crazy Libertarian) believe in equal opportunity. Healthcare, outside the year of birth, has pretty much all the expenses shifted to those in old age who should have put aside some of their wealth to provide for this healthcare. Discussion about healthcare in Britain is ridiculously infantile - most seem to live in a la-la-land believing resources are unlimited.

In Australia we have a system, while far from perfect, seems to work well.

The assumption is that if you fall gravely ill, you will be treated using taxpayer's money at the state's expense. If you choose to insure against those sorts of illnesses, part of the cost is refunded through your taxes also you pay a tax penalty for not insuring.

On top of that, if you require stuff like glasses, physiotherapy and so on then you will have to pay for it yourself and it is up to you whether you insure yourself for that or not. We have one of the most comprehensive forms of insurance which covers contact lenses (2 week disposables), a massage each month (helpful as I cycle a lot), physiotherapy and maternity. For a family of 4 that costs $160/month net of the rebate.

In addition you are covered whilst at work or travelling to or from work by a compulsory insurance scheme called Workcover. If you are injured at or made sick by work then they will pay your wages (if a temp) plus all out of pocket expenses.

If Workcover aren't paying then you will be out of pocket if you get sick and seek treatment. My daughter needed (minor) dental surgery last year and that left us a couple of grand out of pocket IIRC. When I busted up my thumb playing soccer I ended up paying about $50 for painkillers and then perhaps $600 for physio. Then again as the state only spends about 30% of GDP (vs 50% in the UK) I have the money left in my pay packet to afford to pay my medical bills!

Regarding the education, I think that people should be given vouchers by the state to pay for education and then decide what is best for their kids. If they want to top it up then fine.