NatWest - does this sound possible ?

Somerset

Last Friday I received a call from NatWest fraud. I'd made an online purchase for £200 with my maestro card. They asked me whether I'd made this transaction and went on to explain the retailer had called for the payment twice. NatWest had approved the first (showing debited on my statement 15/07) and declined the second. All good - they were on the ball. My card was also cancelled per our phone conversation and a replacement requested.

Tuesday I called the fraud department and asked for something in writing from NatWest stating/showing the retailer had requested the payment twice. They said they couldn't - I had to raise a 'concern' with my branch. Timeframe 24/48 hour response. I did this.

Thursday the retailer responded to my ''why did you ..'' saying they had checked with their finance dept/bank and they definitely hadn't called for it twice. Maybe true, maybe not.

The problem. As of today (ie since last Friday) my NatWest current a/c statement shows a 'balance' of £400 and 'available' of £200 ie this ghost request/transaction. I didn't query it as I assumed it would drop off. Today I spent approx 2 hours on the phone trying to get an answer as to why this declined transaction is still 'held'. Normally the difference is attributable to pending transactions. There are none, NatWest have confirmed this. The fraud dept say it was declined therefore they have no idea. The 'Ops Dept' say it will either drop off tonight (but can't explain why it's there) OR it will be paid/charged to me. This is a declined (fraud dept) transaction. Unhappy with that, I was passed to a supervisor, who was helpful, he tried, and I'm due a call tomorrow morning when it's done something (tonight is the magic night when their system will decide what to do with it ?). But basically the supervisor, given the history of it, was stumped as to why a declined transaction one week previously was still floating about.

Does anyone understand the NatWest system and explain why it's done this ?

P.S. The branch 'concern' is still pending. Now advised by them it can take up to 8 weeks - all I wanted at that stage (Tuesday) was something in writing from NatWest confirming the retailer had called for the payment twice.

rb10

If your available balance is £200 less than it should be, then it looks like the retailer placed a second authorisation on the payment, which Natwest did not decline. However, it should drop off automatically within about 5 working days (so this is what could happen tonight). If you want it to be removed sooner, then Natwest will (should) be able to tell you how to do this - it will involve the retailer sending a fax to Natwest requesting that the duplicate authorisation is removed.

This really doesn't surprise me with Natwest - their general customer service levels are renowned for being pretty poor.

Somerset

rb10 wrote: »

If your available balance is £200 less than it should be, then it looks like the retailer placed a second authorisation on the payment, which Natwest did not decline. However, it should drop off automatically within about 5 working days (so this is what could happen tonight).

I hear what you're saying. I've been round the houses today with Nat West. What you say was suggested as a possibility by the supervisor I spoke to today but tbh I didn't think it possible - if NatWest had been suspicious of the second transaction to the point of it being declined and passed to their fraud dept, telephoning me, cancelling the card etc - why on earth would they then 'pass' it if it came through again? Plus their fraud dept made no mention of it on Tuesday or today when I spoke to them.

rb10 wrote: »

If you want it to be removed sooner, then Natwest will (should) be able to tell you how to do this - it will involve the retailer sending a fax to Natwest requesting that the duplicate authorisation is removed..

Well, as I said, they are saying that tonight, something will happen when their system updates. So hopefully it will disappear. The option of getting the retailer to fax NatWest isn't possible as the retailer is adament they only requested, and received the payment once.

Obviously I'm all for fraud to be picked up. It protects me. After the Friday phone call I was impressed with NatWest being 'on the ball'. It just all seems to have gone downhill since then. I can't get them to confirm anything in writing. The ghost transaction may still potentially be paid. And I still haven't received my replacement card !

stclair

Yeah the ghost transaction will drop off in a few days the system updates at 2.30am tonight so it might get sorted then.

If dont get sorted tonight it wont get sorted until tuesday.

Mikeyorks

I don't pretend to know the fine detail of some of the eccentricities that can happen at the Bank end of debit card processing. But logic says (phantom transactions are generally 'incomplete') that not all money 'pending' has been authorised.

As there have been a number of threads in the past where people making high value purchases (typically a car) have finished with a negative 'available' balance of several £thousand and which far exceeds their agreed overdraft. Most of these have been telephone referrals because of the value ...... and it's illogical to believe the Bank have authorised a duplicate. Yet a real transaction materialises on the account whilst an identical value 'phantom' ties up the rest of the money in the account plus several £thousand more.

In all cases the problem revolves around the merchant acquirer who handles the retailers card payments - and it is usually they who have to identify and neutralise the rogue transaction.

The same clearly happens with lower value transactions. And whilst I always tend to think that anything missing from 'available' is 'authorised ' ........ it's obviously not the case. And oddities do happen. I would also suspect that it probably wasn't the merchant asking for the money twice - but a hiccup at the acquirer level. It's often the case in a 'card not present' transaction, that goes wrong.

Different Banks have different timelines set on their software before it gives up on a transaction and returns the money to available. Halifax, for example, is 7 working days.

Somerset

stclair wrote: »

Yeah the ghost transaction will drop off in a few days the system updates at 2.30am tonight so it might get sorted then.

If dont get sorted tonight it wont get sorted until tuesday.

Why Tuesday stclair ? And it's still there today (Saturday). Awaiting that promised call.

Edit : Since first transaction debited 15/07, and second supposedly shortly thereafter - means we're at six working days 16th (fri) & 19th - 23rd (Mon-Fri).

Edit : No call received !

stclair

Because even though its Saturday today the system thinks its Monday.

Somerset

I think I might hold off till Tuesday. On Tuesday it'll be seven working days. If the funds are still held I'll do a formal complaint as after seven days there's obviously a glitch which is causing this transaction to be stuck. It's a complete waste of time talking to endless people/depts at NatWest who can't understand, explain or resolve it. Not to mention promised phone calls that don't materialise. Equally the 'concern' raised at the branch which I was told had a 24/48 hour timeframe appears to be equally fruitless.

stclair

Have you spoken to the retailer in question at any point regarding your issue?

If your the money is not made available to you by Tuesday, you should follows the banks complaint procedure.

https://www.natwest.com/secure/global/contact_us/complaints_procedure.htm

zppp

I have seen a similar case, where a hotel did this in the USA some time ago. You need to ask Natwest for the authorisation code, and give that to the retailer. Because it hasn't 'dropped off' automatically, the reatiler must inform their merchant that the transaction can be cancelled. They will hand the authorisation code to the merchant, and this will manually cancel the transaction.

Complianing to the bank will be fruitless, as they cannot cancel this transaction. From the bank's side they have no control over the transaction, due to the fact that the bank cannot veriy whether the cancellation would be valid.

Somerset

stclair wrote: »

Have you spoken to the retailer in question at any point regarding your issue?

If your the money is not made available to you by Tuesday, you should follows the banks complaint procedure.

https://www.natwest.com/secure/global/contact_us/complaints_procedure.htm

I've spoken to the retailer who've said they did not call for it twice. They've checked and double-checked. They asked for it once, and received it once.

Thanks for the link