how do you prove a wall is not yours

twitter

Hi, first timer here, There was a bus shelter wall built on top of the low boundary wall of my property sometime in the 50's, before I bought the property. The shelter has been removed and replaced with a free standing one but the wall was left standing. The council have now taken it down saying it was leaning dangerously and are charging me £650 for doing it. They insist it belongs to me but I say it is theirs. There's no mention on deeds. They say I have to prove it's not mine. Any ideas where to go from here?

Sandoval

I'd ask them to prove that it is. Surely the onus is on them to provide proof that it belongs to you and not the other way round.

twitter

Thats what I thought but they say not, they're threatening court action if I don't pay up soon.

Sandoval

Got you over a barrel then haven't they? Worth a visit to Citizen's Advice or a solicitor maybe?

WestonDave

Except that if they do go for court action, they will need to provide proof/evidence in their particulars of claim that you are responsible, at which point you can either decide to pay up before the court date or defend the claim on the grounds that they haven't established your responsibility.

iamcornholio

It would be up to the homeowner/OP to prove that the wall is not his

You say that the property has just been purchased and the wall was already there and built in the 50's. The first questions are - how do you know this and how can you prove this?

If the wall was built by others then it may be that the previous owner gave permission and then either by specific permission or over time, the wall has become part of the property.

It would be most unusual for a a wall on someones property not to be owned by them, and so that is why proof of non-ownership would be required rather than proof of ownership.

Unless there is some specific or overriding evidence (or witneses) to the contrary, then if it came to deciding, a Judge would go with the most likely scenario, and that is that the wall is owned by the property owner

Sandoval

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iamcornholio wrote: »

Unless there is some specific or overriding evidence (or witneses) to the contrary, then if it came to deciding, a Judge would go with the most likely scenario, and that is that the wall is owned by the property owner

Other than the rather obvious oversight of 'why would a homeowner decide to build a wall for a bus shelter at their own expense?'

Or would a judge think that things like that are generally built by councils?

iamcornholio

Sandoval wrote: »

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Other than the rather obvious oversight of 'why would a homeowner decide to build a wall for a bus shelter at their own expense?'

In the 1950's (or even today), someone may say to a homeowner "let me build a wall on top of your wall and on your side of the boundary, I will pay you £x amount of money, but as you will get some benefit from the new wall, it will belong to you after we finish with it"

Or something to that effect

What is not likely to happen is that a homeowner will let someone build on their property for nothing in return. Or a homeowner let a wall built by others stay longer on their property than is necessary

That is the "balance of probabilities"

benood

Did you ask them to take the wall down? Alternatively did removing the original bus shelter destabilise the wall?

justjohn

was the wall built on your land? and was the land on your deeds?
If not then the council must proove you or a previouse owner of your land built the wall.

if land not on your deeds then is the land worth owning and taking responsibility for?

shazpea

it seems very odd to me that the council can just come along and take part of your wall down without asking your permission, if it is, as they say, your wall. Surely they should have contacted you to tell you that the wall was dangerous and needed removing before going ahead and doing it? And if it is your wall then it would be mentioned in some part of the property deeds or the purchase documents. the fact that it isn't mentioned anywhere would be proof in itself?