Who is liable for burglary damage causing a callout?

olly300

ewan_steele wrote: »

Haha, the thought had crossed my mind, but I'm eternally grateful to my neighbours for looking out for us like that. They all called the police, got up at 3am and stayed up guarding the house until 5-6am on a Sunday morning calling the police insisting something was done about it and making sure they didn't come back. They risked their safety breaking up the burglary too, there were five young adults involved apparently (on scooters not even trying to be quiet - apparently they were joyriding around the front as a couple of them broke in!). I'd never point the finger at my neighbours, I count myself lucky to have ones that would look out for us like that. I'd sour the relationship with my LL over this, but never my neighbours. They did a top notch job. The mobile number thing is a good point though!

Give them the landlady's number as well. It can backfire on the next tenants if they cause a nuisance but tough.

BTW your landlady is a sh*t. Be careful when you move out.

ewan_steele

olly300 wrote: »

OP you can refuse but as the locksmiths have your name it is you they would come after.

Pay it under protest and chase the landlady for the money. If the worse comes to the worse you can take her to court for it though I wouldn't advise it.

Also some contents insurance policies especially those targeted at tenants do pay for locks to be changed or a property to be made secure in the case of a break in. Plus it's stupidity to keep valuables in a location which was already burgled without the property being made secure.

While I have sympathy that you have been burgled I have no sympathy on your stance.

Honestly, I had no idea a specialist tennants insurance even existed. Lesson learnt.

The first burglary happened while we were both in the house, downstairs no less. We have no side gate down the side of the house (soon to be rectified!) and my housemate had left the garage door unlocked for all of two minutes while he got out of his bike gear in the house. In that time, they managed to run down the side, wheel the bike out of the garage and get away with it. My housemate heard the garage door slam shut, ran outside, looked all around but they were already gone. I'm assuming they had clocked that we stored bikes there and were watching. They might even have had a van. What that means is, the property was no less secure than it had been pre burglary. We even made sure the bikes were chained up etc inside the garage. When they came back (while I was out of town - nothing I could do there), they didn't get away with anything but they did cause a lot of damage to the property - something I'm now left with the charge for. As a tenant. With a landlord who either doesnt have or is refusing to claim on insurance. Whose advice is "just ignore it" - easy for her to say without her name attached, and she's keen for us not to pass on any of her details to these guys. So I do think my stance is perfectly reasonable - if there was natural disaster damage to the property while I was away, and boarding had to be put up, would I be expected to front the related costs? If the answer to that is no, then it shouldn't be here either.

I think my contract is clear on who is liable here, and the Locksmith asked for a copy of it. It has the LLs address on it, which she asked not to hand over. But as the LL, her job is not just to receive rent every month. She's providing a service, and as far as I'm concerned, she's refusing to provide that service. We've kept to our side of the contract at all times, and now it comes to something where the balls in her court and she doesn't seem to want to know.

clutton_2

look on Shelters website for how to pay for the repairs and then deduct it from your rent if you feel strongly enough ... but this situation of yours is a little unusual so its possible it may not apply but worth a read....

pararct

I think the fact the LL specifically asked that you do not provide the locksmith with her address means she understands the law perfectly.

The tradesman will have a right of redress against the property owner. Ok the LL may not have asked for the work to be done but the garage needed to be secured.
End of the day the test will be what was reasonable in the circumstances. Given the fact the police instructed him would be enough. I am sure there is plenty of case law on the subject if delved into far enough.

Course if the locksmith had the LL address they would have the information necessary to start a small claims action!

Stop worrying and give the locksmith the contact details for the LL.

bugbear

I have found this very enlightening reading. I am sure that there are two sides to every story and I am sure that if the LL was asked their version my differ a little for instance:

1) when did you inform the LL of your break in - was it within 3 days as stated in most contracts or was it two weeks after the incident.

2) did you inform the landlord of the previous burglary - as I am sure they would have liked the opportunity to look at the security knowing that if there had been a break as second break ins often happen.

3) You mention that you have no side gates - is it standard to have side gate leading to a garage? - how do people get cars in and out if this is a side gate? also who is paying for the new gates you mention in your previous post?

4) If the LL is repairing why do they have to claim on the insurance as long as the job is being completed it is not mandatory that they should claim - also even if there is a high excess why should they suddenly have to pay and find the money overnight - you state you don't have the money why do you expect that they do.

5) not all LL are rolling in cash and may not be renting the property out as a business but maybe out of necessity and are not scamming and trying to rob people blind but trying to get by just like many others. a burglary is not something that anyone just "factors in" to the monthly bills. It may be possible that they are even renting the property at a loss and be paying more on a mortgage that rent received - there has been a market drop - they may have negative equity.

6) You said you were more likely to believe the locksmith over the LL that they probably do not have insurance, they probably do have one and are not trying to hide that they don't - have you even asked to see the policy? you ask why would the locksmith lie? - who is it wanting the money from you???? the locksmith by chance?

7) Many people have stated that you should just give the LL address to the locksmith - this would be a breach of the data protection act so be very careful.

8) You state you have tested the waters of paying half - have you actually offered or just asked a fishing question during which you may have mis-interpreted the answer.

There seam to be lots of comments on this thread and it appears to be 50/50 on who is in the wrong here - just goes to show half of the people who are making comments are incorrect. I am also gobsmaked that there are so many legal advisor's giving away their "advice" for free.

pararct

bugbear wrote: »

I have found this very enlightening reading. I am sure that there are two sides to every story and I am sure that if the LL was asked their version my differ a little for instance:

1) when did you inform the LL of your break in - was it within 3 days as stated in most contracts or was it two weeks after the incident.

2) did you inform the landlord of the previous burglary - as I am sure they would have liked the opportunity to look at the security knowing that if there had been a break as second break ins often happen.

3) You mention that you have no side gates - is it standard to have side gate leading to a garage? - how do people get cars in and out if this is a side gate? also who is paying for the new gates you mention in your previous post?

4) If the LL is repairing why do they have to claim on the insurance as long as the job is being completed it is not mandatory that they should claim - also even if there is a high excess why should they suddenly have to pay and find the money overnight - you state you don't have the money why do you expect that they do.

5) not all LL are rolling in cash and may not be renting the property out as a business but maybe out of necessity and are not scamming and trying to rob people blind but trying to get by just like many others. a burglary is not something that anyone just "factors in" to the monthly bills. It may be possible that they are even renting the property at a loss and be paying more on a mortgage that rent received - there has been a market drop - they may have negative equity.

6) You said you were more likely to believe the locksmith over the LL that they probably do not have insurance, they probably do have one and are not trying to hide that they don't - have you even asked to see the policy? you ask why would the locksmith lie? - who is it wanting the money from you???? the locksmith by chance?

7) Many people have stated that you should just give the LL address to the locksmith - this would be a breach of the data protection act so be very careful.

8) You state you have tested the waters of paying half - have you actually offered or just asked a fishing question during which you may have mis-interpreted the answer.

There seam to be lots of comments on this thread and it appears to be 50/50 on who is in the wrong here - just goes to show half of the people who are making comments are incorrect. I am also gobsmaked that there are so many legal advisor's giving away their "advice" for free.

Including you it would seem!! :rotfl:

Please explain how you come to the conclusion reference the DPA.

Money_maker

amiehall wrote: »

I can't believe no-one has pointed out that screwing a bit of wood onto a door isn't reasonable work to receive for £200! What a rip off! Too right you wouldn't have asked someone to do that, it's a ridiculous price for a 2 minute job. Am I right in saying that this now needs a proper repair on top of what's due to be paid for this bodge?

Called out of bed in the early hours of the morning. Having to use a large van/truck to lug 'a bit of plywood' over to a job - possibly a two man job if it was a proper sheet size. What price would you get out of bed for in the early hours, try to source a decent sized bit of ply (although the locksmith would have had some anyway), load up tools etc?

What would you find a reasonable price in normal office hours?

ewan_steele

bugbear wrote: »

I have found this very enlightening reading. I am sure that there are two sides to every story and I am sure that if the LL was asked their version my differ a little for instance:

1) when did you inform the LL of your break in - was it within 3 days as stated in most contracts or was it two weeks after the incident.

2) did you inform the landlord of the previous burglary - as I am sure they would have liked the opportunity to look at the security knowing that if there had been a break as second break ins often happen.

3) You mention that you have no side gates - is it standard to have side gate leading to a garage? - how do people get cars in and out if this is a side gate? also who is paying for the new gates you mention in your previous post?

4) If the LL is repairing why do they have to claim on the insurance as long as the job is being completed it is not mandatory that they should claim - also even if there is a high excess why should they suddenly have to pay and find the money overnight - you state you don't have the money why do you expect that they do.

5) not all LL are rolling in cash and may not be renting the property out as a business but maybe out of necessity and are not scamming and trying to rob people blind but trying to get by just like many others. a burglary is not something that anyone just "factors in" to the monthly bills. It may be possible that they are even renting the property at a loss and be paying more on a mortgage that rent received - there has been a market drop - they may have negative equity.

6) You said you were more likely to believe the locksmith over the LL that they probably do not have insurance, they probably do have one and are not trying to hide that they don't - have you even asked to see the policy? you ask why would the locksmith lie? - who is it wanting the money from you???? the locksmith by chance?

7) Many people have stated that you should just give the LL address to the locksmith - this would be a breach of the data protection act so be very careful.

8) You state you have tested the waters of paying half - have you actually offered or just asked a fishing question during which you may have mis-interpreted the answer.

There seam to be lots of comments on this thread and it appears to be 50/50 on who is in the wrong here - just goes to show half of the people who are making comments are incorrect. I am also gobsmaked that there are so many legal advisor's giving away their "advice" for free.

Unfortunately on both occasions the police informed us that the LL had been notified. When the LL called my housemate, he assumed it was about that - turned out the LL hadn't heard about it. Perhaps we should have called ourselves to confirm regardless of what the police said, lesson learned. All of the other houses have side gates but this is neither here nor there to the boarding up issue - a side gate should put off would be thieves and the LL has agreed to pay for this. Hopefully it'll also be installed too, not sure I have the DIY skills to deal with that...

I don't know who to believe, my housemate had to deal with a fairly aggressive call from the Locksmith who insisted our LL had said they have no insurance. I don't really care if this is or isn't the case, I do care about being landed with a £200 bill when I'm struggling to live as it is.

Not sure that it'd be a breach of data protection to give out the LLs address but I wouldn't do it regardless, I've been asked not to and like I said I have a fairly good relationship so far with the LL.

All in all I just want this to go away, it's stressfull and I have enough financial worries to deal with without being loaded with this and worrying about bailiffs etc. To those who say the Locksmiths charges are reasonable, maybe they are and maybe they aren't. Thinking about it with a clear head I understand his point of view but the way he spoke to my housemate on the phone doesn't exactly make me want to sing his praises.

pararct

ewan_steele wrote: »

Unfortunately on both occasions the police informed us that the LL had been notified. When the LL called my housemate, he assumed it was about that - turned out the LL hadn't heard about it. Perhaps we should have called ourselves to confirm regardless of what the police said, lesson learned. All of the other houses have side gates but this is neither here nor there to the boarding up issue - a side gate should put off would be thieves and the LL has agreed to pay for this. Hopefully it'll also be installed too, not sure I have the DIY skills to deal with that...

I don't know who to believe, my housemate had to deal with a fairly aggressive call from the Locksmith who insisted our LL had said they have no insurance. I don't really care if this is or isn't the case, I do care about being landed with a £200 bill when I'm struggling to live as it is.

Not sure that it'd be a breach of data protection to give out the LLs address but I wouldn't do it regardless, I've been asked not to and like I said I have a fairly good relationship so far with the LL.

All in all I just want this to go away, it's stressfull and I have enough financial worries to deal with without being loaded with this and worrying about bailiffs etc. To those who say the Locksmiths charges are reasonable, maybe they are and maybe they aren't. Thinking about it with a clear head I understand his point of view but the way he spoke to my housemate on the phone doesn't exactly make me want to sing his praises.

End of the day if the tradesman does not have the information to hand to chase the property owner for the debt he will go after the next best thing.

There may be no legal way he can get you to pay it but he can make your life difficult along the way.
How would you feel about giving him the LL address when he has summoned you to the Small Claims Court?

If I recall correctly it only costs £30 (or thereabouts) to raise the paperwork (which is attached to the bill) and a summons is sent out. Many unscrupulous people use this route to bully payments out of people that do not know better and are fazed by summons documents landing on their doormat.