Who is liable for burglary damage causing a callout?

ewan_steele

Hi there, I'm new to these forums so first of all a big hello. A month or so ago we were burgled - just the garage. Myself and my only housemate were not at home at the time, we were elsewhere in the country for the weekend. They took a motorbike etc, and the neighbours called the police. After the police had finished driving around looking for them, the neighbours asked that they do something about our now wide open and unlocked garage. The police called a locksmith out, who put a bit of plywood over the garage door with a few screws.

We then received a letter (specifically I did, it was addressed to me and not my housemate) invoicing us for £200 for the service. They said that it was performed under a duty of care as a result of the callout from the police. Obviously I do not want to pay for this, especially with the amount of council tax we pay, though I appreciate that this is a private company called by the police (this was the second burglary inside a week as it goes, and I've already lost a motorbike and a scooter due to not being able to pay the £150 + £10/day each fee the police wanted for recovering the bikes... again, I pay my council tax for what? Same story, palmed off to a private company and held ransom. The scooter was even taken from our premises by the police for dusting down for prints, then given to a company and we were charged for its return... I digress.)

The story so far is: I emailed the locksmiths who boarded the garage to say that they should contact our landlord (gave the name and number) and that as the owner of the property, they would deal with it. Today I received a text from my landlord saying "have received a call from boarding up guy. referred him back to police. dont give him any further info about me, eg address". Within a minute of this, I received an email from the locksmiths saying:

Unfortunately as the tenant of the property at the time of the incident it is your responsibility for payment of our invoice dated Monday 7th June 2010 and invoice reminder dated Friday 9th July 2010. We have spoken to your landlady ******** who wasn't aware of a burglary that took place at ******** Road and she has confirmed that it is your responsibilty as the tenant to pay for our services.



We request this outstanding payment is made in full immediately so this matter can be resolved, preventing any leagal action taking place and interest being added.

The landlady is aware of the burglary, infact she's sorting out a side gate etc follwing a visit. If I had to guess, I'd say the locksmiths are the ones that are lying here.

I the meantime I had texted my LL to say "sure, i wont pass on any details other than your name and number, hope they dont become a pain" to which she replied "i gave them the short stick, there was no contract they dont have a leg to stand on". This communication happened moments before I read the above email from the locksmiths.

My thoughts are this:

1) There was no work order or contract signed for this work done.
2) I didn't ask them to come out and do the work that night, nor would I have done was I there.

Regardless of who is legally liable here, I will at least dig my feet in and fight this. It's not even so much the amount involved as the principle of the matter, I could probably scrape together £100 each from me and my housemate if I had to, but that's not the point.

However, I would like to know when push comes to shove who is legally liable for this bill - me or the LL. I'll be seeking advice from the CAB too.

If I let it go to court, there are 2 things that concern me. 1) If it goes to bailiffs first, can they take my car (worth a lot more than £200) if they figure out its mine (not hard since it's always parked up outside my house). I know about peaceful entry and all of that, and am not concerned about the house element as I'm more than equipped to deflect a bailiff, but obviously the car thing is a concern. 2) if it goes to court and they decide I am liable to pay, then aside from the increased charges I'll end up paying out, what happens if they issue a CCJ? I remember reading about a 30 day period to pay it in full and then you don't get the CCJ, but I'm not sure.

Obviously losing my car or getting a CCJ is not worth it over this. Judging from what happened when my bike was stolen, I'd probably end up having to pay for the car back too... For all of these reasons, I'd like to find out who is liable to foot the bill in such situations.

Apologies for the disjointed rambling post, but any help or guidance offered to any or all of my questions would be appreciated! I'm justy taking 24 hours to stop and think before I go from here.

N79

Ultimately the LL is responsible for the repairs but you may well carry the liability, as the occupier, for the emergency work carried out by the police. If it was me, I would pay the police bill and then get the LL to reimburse me.

welshy_2002

ewan_steele wrote: »

motorbike and a scooter due to not being able to pay the £150 + £10/day each fee the police wanted for recovering the bikes...

Hello there, welcome to the forum.

The above is baffling me... Are you saying the police were going to charge you to recover the stolen bikes?

Wee_Willy_Harris

Just put it all in the hands of your insurers, as I'm sure you will have done with the previous theft.

mynameisdave

According to direct.gov, yes. A Bailiff can take your car. Possible exception would be if you were a taxi driver or other such occupation that needed a car (to get to work is unlikely to count as they will argue you can use public transport)

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingDebt/DebtsAndArrears/DG_10034289

As for who is liable, I would assume that the landlady can claim it on house insurance. However, the excess may =be in excess of the cost so it wouldn'r be worth it. You could possibly negotiate that she pays half and you and the housemate pay the other half, that way you only need to find £50 each.

mynameisdave

welshy_2002 wrote: »

The above is baffling me... Are you saying the police were going to charge you to recover the stolen bikes?

Seems unfair but its not the first time I've heard of it.

I have no idea what happens when the insurance company comes along and asks for possession of the bike to pay out for the theft, or if they will given that the owner can re-take possession by paying the fee.

princeofpounds

I would imagine there is a well-established area of law covering this, but searching for it has proved a nightmare. Maybe someone on landlordzone forum would know about this?

ewan_steele

Yes, there were two burglaries. We had 2 motorbikes and 1 scooter int he garage. I had a feeling they'd come back having seen the other bikes in there, but unfortunately we were due to be away that week.

The first burglary saw my bike get stolen. The police recovered it having been damaged and joy ridden 2 days later, called a private recovery company to tow it back to their garage, and we then received a bill for £150 for the "Police Recover" and a further £10/day until I picked it up and paid for it. I let them destroy/auction it, it was only a £400 bike with third party insurance to learn on before getting a bigger bike, and I'm not paying a couple of hundred quid for a damaged £400 back.

We then alerted the neighbours to be on the lookout while we were away, both sides were aware of the burglary. The second happened at about 3am, and the neighbours distrupted it and called the police. They dropped the scooter in our alley way, and the police took it away (again we were not here at the time) for fingerprinting. They then gave it to the same private recovery company who gave us the same charge to get it back as for the bike. Needless to say, I let them keep that too - both were cheap (low hundreds in value) and third party insurance only. It was this second burglary that left the door to the garage broken and in need of boarding up, which is where this £200 bill comes from.

Fantastic job from the police there, really makes you want to continue paying council tax hey. Of course, they never caught the burglars, though they were happy to charge for their time and efforts. It's double dipping on tax in my opinion. But it's done now. The kick in the teeth is that at the time my motorbike was found, I was at home and it was recovered all of half a mile from my house. I could have comfortably gone and picked it up. The garage it was held ransom at was about 2 streets from my house - £150 for them putting it in a van and driving it 3 mins down the road, then holding it on site for an hour!

ewan_steele

Wee_Willy_Harris wrote: »

Just put it all in the hands of your insurers, as I'm sure you will have done with the previous theft.

Unfortunately we don't have house insurance, we just can't afford it at this stage. Recent graduates in lots of debt with hardly any disposable income etc. Just the way it is.

The LL was going to claim on her insurance, since she has house insurance for the house, in order to have a new garage door fitted etc. However, she said the excess was about 3/4 of the cost of the door itself when she looked into it, and so is now looking into paying for a repair out of her own pocket, which would be cheaper. She's also agreed to have a side gate put in the alley way. We do have a good relationship - never been late with a rent payment etc, and I'm sure she's keen to keep us. However, if the liability for damage to the house like this lies with her, then I'd like to know. If it lies with us, then I guess I'll dig my heels in with the locksmiths and if not try to negotiate with them after that. I could try and go halves with the LL too of course. But really, she thinks its ridiculous that this charge even exists, and I agree. She wont pay it, and I don't want to pay it, but if the liability is with me and they start taking legal action against me, I'll have to pay.

geri1965_2

At the end of the day it's her property they boarded up - although I can see her point that since she didn't instruct them to do the work, then there is no contract.

Either way, I can't see that it's your responsibility unless there is something in the tenancy agreement.

geri1965_2

Wee_Willy_Harris wrote: »

Just put it all in the hands of your insurers, as I'm sure you will have done with the previous theft.

A tenant is only likely to need contents insurance, which wouldn't cover the property or any of the outbuildings.