Cruel School?

meritaten

janninew wrote: »

Why the need to keep calling these children 'babies?' I know it makes it sound more emotive, but 3 and 4 year olds are children, not babies!! Sorry to go off topic slightly but it was bugging me a little!!

from my advanced years, 56 of them - 3 and 4 and even 5 year olds are 'babies'! in fact when I was in primary school, we started at minimum age of four and some kids were 5 and the first year was actually known as the 'babies' class. nursery classes were not provided in state schools and playgroups etc were unheard of.

I think schools tend to focus too much on extra curricular activities. and cannot understand why - when teaching staff complain so much about the workload under the national curriculum do schools arrange so many trips, charity events, theatre groups, art exhibitions (where you are invited to purchase the childs artwork which you normally get in great quantities anyway), book fairs, bbqs discos.................the list goes on and on and on!
excluding kids from anything which is done in school hours - particularly if there are class discussions or work on that event during class is definately not on!!! this was cruel and horrible and I WOULD complain both to the governors and the LEA!
makes my blood boil actually thinking of those poor babies humiliated in this way.
and to those who seem determined to label the parents as 'scum' or plain uncaring, then ask yourselves how many times letters from school have gone astray? or how many times you have been so strapped for cash that even a pound is beyond your means! if the last doesnt apply then thank the gods you are one of the lucky ones!!!

GracieP

meritaten wrote: »

or how many times you have been so strapped for cash that even a pound is beyond your means! if the last doesnt apply then thank the gods you are one of the lucky ones!!!

I think that in many cases this has never applied and it's clearly too hard for people who've never been in that position to understand it. When I was growing up, without doubt, every last penny was accounted for. Right down to the last £2 a week which was put aside for christmas. We very rarely had a family holiday, 3 times during my childhood/teens, and they were all Butlins. My parents didn't drink, smoke or ever eat out. The only time they ever had a night out was if my dad's rugby team had won a tournament and the club paid for that.

We used to go on school excursions but only if we could pay for them ourselves by saving birthday/xmas money, or money saved from doing jobs for our grandparents. If we didn't have the money we didn't go and my parents left us choose whether we wanted to or not as it was our cash.

In my last year of school I had the money to go to Germany on the class tour. Took my 18 months to save it and some spending money. 4 weeks before we were told the entire 6 year had to go on a religious retreat for 2 days and it was mandatory. I could not afford it as I had already paid for the German trip and the retreat was cost was more than I had to spend on the trip. My school decided to let me go for free as it was considered essential to my being ready for my exams. I sort of wish they'd been mean about it though. I would so have preferred 2 days of quiet reading in the library over 2 days of mass and being told all of the ways in which sex before marriage gets you shipped off to hell.

trickytrolleys

i've only read a few of the responses but had to post, I am shocked the school were so petty minded towards toddlers and I would be seriously considering my childs future at a place where cruelty (and I think it is that) can be so easily used, I could NEVER have done that and would have objected very strongly if I had witnessed it.

to add, my daughters school want money almost weekly for something or other and is usually in excess of £5.00, it does get on my nerves but I always pay as I wouldn't want her to be the one with the parent who doesnt but I have a friend who is very wealthy, four kids and NEVER pays for any school trips - that meanness actually put me off her in the end

trickytrolleys

GracieP - maybe it sounds worse than it actually was but there is no reason whatsoever for a family to be as poor as you claim yours to be, I can understand that at different times things can be difficult but what you describe is almost Dickensian

GracieP

trickytrolleys wrote: »

GracieP - maybe it sounds worse than it actually was but there is no reason whatsoever for a family to be as poor as you claim yours to be, I can understand that at different times things can be difficult but what you describe is almost Dickensian

Our lives were far from Dickensian,* they were perfectly comfortable, but every last penny was accounted for. I don't think you have any idea of what life is like for an awful lot of people. Bear in mind that in recent years the majority of people have been living on more than they earn and racking up debt. In reality most people on low to low middle incomes can't afford holidays every year, or to go out several times a month or to just have money for every trip/activity that crops up. And people with better incomes but high levels of debt to repay may have even less. Lots of people can barely afford the essentials, nevermind any luxuries.


*Actually a lot of characters in Dickens' books had fine lives and many were very rich indeed.

meritaten

trickytrolleys wrote: »

GracieP - maybe it sounds worse than it actually was but there is no reason whatsoever for a family to be as poor as you claim yours to be, I can understand that at different times things can be difficult but what you describe is almost Dickensian

er - GracieP wasnt the only one - my parents had to borrow money from a wealthy relative for me to go on my one and only school trip abroad. and my dad worked down the pit! but his wages only covered the necessities - not luxuries!
and nothing much has changed! those on the national minimum wage have to pay rent or mortgage utilities food etc and there is NOTHING left over. so the constant demands by schools for 50ps, £1s, £5s etc cannot always be met.
it really distresses me how little sympathy is given on this thread to those who are on minumum wage or benefits.
If you say you cannot afford these costs then you are immediately accused of being a scrounger or a druggie or spending all your money on fags and booze! I suspect this is by people earning at least £30k a year or more. I HAVE noticed that the more people earn the less tolerant they are of people less well off!

Fang_3

meritaten wrote: »

er - GracieP wasnt the only one - my parents had to borrow money from a wealthy relative for me to go on my one and only school trip abroad. and my dad worked down the pit! but his wages only covered the necessities - not luxuries!
and nothing much has changed! those on the national minimum wage have to pay rent or mortgage utilities food etc and there is NOTHING left over. so the constant demands by schools for 50ps, £1s, £5s etc cannot always be met.
it really distresses me how little sympathy is given on this thread to those who are on minumum wage or benefits.
If you say you cannot afford these costs then you are immediately accused of being a scrounger or a druggie or spending all your money on fags and booze! I suspect this is by people earning at least £30k a year or more. I HAVE noticed that the more people earn the less tolerant they are of people less well off!

Perhaps that's because those that earn that sort of money worked hard to get to a place where they can earn it and they are sick to the back teeth of people who haven't the sense to do anything moaning about how hard done by they are?

galvanizersbaby

janninew wrote: »

Why the need to keep calling these children 'babies?' I know it makes it sound more emotive, but 3 and 4 year olds are children, not babies!! Sorry to go off topic slightly but it was bugging me a little!!

I think for this thread the age of the children is largely irrelevant due to the fact that this situation has occurred in an actual state school with a pre-school nursery class attached.

Where I am there are no such schools - for pre school children there are private nurseries or playgroups type set ups - I only have experience of a private nursery.

If this situation had cropped up in a private nursery or playgroup I'm not sure what the response would be - maybe the same? not sure?

I have not seen children excluded in this way (that's not to say they haven't been) in my children's school so far (they are only aged 6 and 7) but there is a little girl in DS's class that has the sort of parents which I think Fang is referring to in his posts and on the first school trip she was included but didn't arrive with the necessary packed lunch (this is usually provided by the school for her but the coach was leaving before the lunch delivery)) so I gave her my own packed lunch (make myself one for work every day) and ran to the shop to get her a drink - she looked so upset when the teacher explained she had to have a lunch with her and whoever had brought her to school that day hadn't hung around - she was 5 at the time - it is a shame

trickytrolleys

^^^^^ i'm not being intolerant atall and have myself lived at both ends of the spectrum but I have NEVER myself, nor have I ever come across any family who are so poor that African villages would feel obliged to have a whipround.

I mean, the only thing thats missing from that post is how they used to enjoy fridays when the neighbours would chuck mouldy cheese in the bin and they could have a treat !

vaio

galvanizersbaby wrote: »

........I have not seen children excluded in this way (that's not to say they haven't been) in my children's school so far (they are only aged 6 and 7) but there is a little girl in DS's class that has the sort of parents which I think Fang is referring to in his posts and on the first school trip she was included but didn't arrive with the necessary packed lunch (this is usually provided by the school for her but the coach was leaving before the lunch delivery)) so I gave her my own packed lunch (make myself one for work every day) and ran to the shop to get her a drink - she looked so upset when the teacher explained she had to have a lunch with her and whoever had brought her to school that day hadn't hung around - she was 5 at the time - it is a shame

Really nice generous gesture on your part donating your lunch & drink but isn’t there an argument that it was the school who were at fault by not providing a lunch for a child who is entitled to free lunches?

It could be the parent, knowing their child is entitled to free packed lunch every day, assumed quite reasonably that it would be provided on the trip day too particularly as they probably wouldn’t know what time the lunch delivery is.