mum died now her daughter has to move out of housing association home

debfra

I am sorry if this is in the wrong place.
My Gran and Grandad moved into their council home in 1945.and their children were born there. Grandad died in 1984 and my aunty and her family moved in with my gran to look after her. They have all lived there and have always paid the rent, kept the house in good condition, and been good neighbours. The housing council new that my aunt and her family moved in. She did ask about going as a joint tenant with my gran but was told that she couldnt have joint tenancy with her mum. But the council did send letters addressed to all three of them,Gran, my aunt and her husband.
Last month Gran died after a long illness with dementia, My aunt cared for her all the time. My aunt went to the housing (the council house has now been taken over by a not for profit housing assocciation) and asked them to put her name on the tenancy. But they told her she cannot succeed to the tenancy as my gran had already succeeded to the tenancy from joint tenancy with my grandad to sole tenancy when he died, and a tenancy can only succeed once.
they have also said that they couldnt have the tenancy because the house would be under occupied,even though there is my aunt her husband and their son in the house.
she is out of her mind with worry the housing have told her in a letter that came today that the meeting about her is to take place on Tuesday and they are warning her that the outcome will be she has to get out of the house.
she has put alot of work into their home and gave up her own council house 25 years ago to care for gran this seems so unfair that she cant even put her case forward to the meeting and is going to have to leave the home she was born in and has lived in almost all her life.

Coming so close to her mothers death my aunt seems very depressed and I am so worried for her. Does any one know if there is anything she can do?

clutton_2

i think she needs to go to Shelter (with you ) and explain what has happened....they are the experts in housing matters... i am very sorry for her loss and her distress.. what a dreadful trauma for her....

she should take her letters and any other documetns she has had from the council

it is possible that she could be offered a smaller home somewhere else... Councils and Housing Associations simply cannot throw people out onto the street at a minutes notice...

PasturesNew

debfra wrote: »

they told her she cannot succeed to the tenancy as my gran had already succeeded to the tenancy from joint tenancy with my grandad to sole tenancy when he died, and a tenancy can only succeed once.

This is the way it has been for many years, so is likely to be the case here.

debfra wrote: »

.... they couldnt have the tenancy because the house would be under occupied,even though there is my aunt her husband and their son in the house.

Under the rules they apply, a two bed house would be deemed sufficient, a 3-bed house would be under occupied.

debfra wrote: »

they are warning her that the outcome will be she has to get out of the house.

It is my understanding that this is highly likely.

debfra wrote: »

she has put alot of work into their home and gave up her own council house 25 years ago to care for gran this seems so unfair that she cant even put her case forward to the meeting and is going to have to leave the home she was born in and has lived in almost all her life.

Coming so close to her mothers death my aunt seems very depressed and I am so worried for her. Does any one know if there is anything she can do?

All you can do is take advice from the various agencies other posters here will tell you to contact, but you have to start to consider that it is highly likely that she will need to move on.

Unless somebody can come up with some obscure set of rules that aren't usually relevant, then the tenancy has already passed once and once is the limit.

mumcoll

I may be wrong but I thought that with the transfer from Council to Housing Association, any tenancies that had been succeeded whilst it was council were kind of 'wiped out' and there could be a further succession allowed. I.e. If as your gran succeeded BEFORE transfer to HA, one more (your aunt in this case) would be allowed after transfer.

It may be worth asking anyway.

BinkyTheHorse

mumcoll wrote: »

I may be wrong but I thought that with the transfer from Council to Housing Association, any tenancies that had been succeeded whilst it was council were kind of 'wiped out' and there could be a further succession allowed. I.e. If as your gran succeeded BEFORE transfer to HA, one more (your aunt in this case) would be allowed after transfer.

It may be worth asking anyway.

I rent from a HA (was originally council) and it says in our lease that a husband / wife can succeed a joint tennancy but that others who live there cannot.


Does your auntie have a copy of the lease, OP?

tbs624

The Housing Act 1985, s87 applies:

87 Persons qualified to succeed tenant.

A person is qualified to succeed the tenant under a secure tenancy if he occupies the dwelling-house as his only or principal home at the time of the tenant’s death and either—
(a)he is the tenant’s spouse [F1or civil partner] , or
(b)he is another member of the tenant’s family and has resided with the tenant throughout the period of twelve months ending with the tenant’s death;
unless, in either case, the tenant was himself a successor, as defined in section 88.

The tenancy has passed from Grandpa to Grandma, and therefore cannot now pass to Auntie. You can talk this through with Shelter 0808 800 4444

Your Auntie *may* also qualify for alternative housing assistance, given the length of time she has lived in the property, if it can clearly be shown that she has been providing personal care to Grandma. Check the Council's "Carer Policy" - did the family claim Care Allowance/Attendance Allowance?

Is Auntie's son an adult or a child btw? If a child, the family will be a higher priority for some form of rehousing.

Even if she had been entitled to succeed the tenancy, the Council *can* ask successors to move to a smaller property so that they use their housing stock to everyone's advantage, rather than leaving properties under occupied whilst others sit it out in overcrowded temporary accommodation.

BinkyTheHorse

tbs624 wrote: »

The Housing Act 1985, s87 applies:

87 Persons qualified to succeed tenant.

A person is qualified to succeed the tenant under a secure tenancy if he occupies the dwelling-house as his only or principal home at the time of the tenant’s death and either—
(a)he is the tenant’s spouse [F1or civil partner] , or
(b)he is another member of the tenant’s family and has resided with the tenant throughout the period of twelve months ending with the tenant’s death;
unless, in either case, the tenant was himself a successor, as defined in section 88.

The tenancy has passed from Grandpa to Grandma, and therefore cannot now pass to Auntie. You can talk this through with Shelter 0808 800 4444

Is Auntie's son an adult or a child btw?

Hmmm - ours definitely says that only a joint tenant / spouse can succeed. I wonder if they could hold people to that if they signed the lease? (not that I'm planning on staying here - saving to buy)

squinty

The information from tbs and pasturesnew is correct. The law is very clear, there can only be one succession for a secure tenancy and the was 'used up' when the tenancy passed from a joint tenancy to a single tenancy.

The HA would be wrong to allow another succession.

However, the HA may allow her to stay be offering a new tenancy. Each assosication have their own rules on allocations, and this depends on local rules and also local demand for properties. However, some will give priorty to people who have given up thier own homes to care for a relative.

You need to understand the rules of the association, rather than the comments on the forum. You should contact them asap or look on thier website for a copy of thier rules.

Also, you do not mention the age of the aunts child. It may be that the family may be accepted as homeless by the local council. They should contact the local council and make an appointment for a homlessness interview asap.

Good luck

debfra

Thanks for all your answers so far
This is what it says on the housing website

Who can succeed to a tenancy?

If there are no joint tenants, the tenancy of their home passes to:

* their partner (their husband, wife, civil partner or the person who had been living with them as part of a couple – gay or straight), as long as that person had been living with the tenant when they died;
* if there is no partner, it can pass to a relative (parent, child, grandparent, grandchild, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, nephew or niece) if they had been living with the tenant for the previous six months;
* if a partner or relative does not want the tenancy it can pass to a carer of the person who died as long they had been living with them for at least two years and that they are officially recognised as a carer by Manchester City Council.

Conditions

If the tenancy passes to a relative or carer, and the home is bigger than they need, we have the legal right to move them out to a suitable alternative home. But we would not move out a partner in the same situation.

If someone has already taken over the tenancy following the death of a previous tenant, the tenancy does not legally have to go to someone else if they die. But we can agree to a ‘second succession’ like this if the person had been living with the tenant for at least ten years.

If they had been living there less than ten years we may end the tenancy (so not allowing a succession) but start a new tenancy agreement and allow them to stay in the property.


I looks like my aunt and her family, (her son is in his 20s but has a difficulty getting around so relies a lot on his parents.) will have to move out of their home. I does seem so unfair. My aunt and uncle are in their 60s and have a few health problems between them. They gave up their council home 26 years ago to look after gran, and they did a wonderful job never asking for help, and both of them were (and still are working) as well as being unpaid carers. They ask the housing for permision and were granted it, to improve the house by making the separate toilet and bathroom into one big room with shower to make it easier to assist gran with bathing.They put in a drive way to make it easier for them getting gran from car to wheelchair to the front door. They landscaped the garden to make it more accessible to gran, and they put in a new kitchen and new doors and windows just recently. Each job they did they kept the housing informed and checked that they were allowed to do it. They asked for no money or grants they saved up to afford what they needed. They have always paid their rent in fact they are quite a few months in advance with the rent.

Why didn't the housing warn them when they went in to tell them Grandad had died and they were giving up their home to care for gran. Maybe if they had been warned that they would be made homeless on grans death they might of had gran move in with them instead. although gran would not of coped well with a move after the death of her husband.

thanks for everyone taking the time to read my long posts and answer

clutton_2

debfra - the conditions above say ""But we can agree to a ‘second succession’ like this if the person had been living with the tenant for at least ten years.""

how long did they live there ?

debfra

My aunt was born in the house she moved out for 10 years when she first got married then when my grandad died in 1984 she move back in to look after gran and has been there ever since, so 26 years since she moved back in