Assaulted by Tesco store security

MarkyMarkD

adouglasmhor wrote: »

Just for anyone who believes this nonsense a citizens arrest is only lawful in the UK if the arrester sees the arrestee committing a crime - not suspicion.

I don't believe you.

A citizen's arrest (officially called an "any person arrest") is permitted to be made on any person under section 24A of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 for an indictable offence, including either way offences (in this section referred to simply as "an offence"), but excluding certain specific ones listed below. It is thus permissible for any person to arrest:
Anyone who is without doubt in the act of committing an offence, or whom the arrestor has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be in the act of committing an offence, and
Where an offence has been committed without doubt, anyone who is without doubt guilty of that offence or whom the arrestor has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it
In order for the arrest to be lawful, the following two conditions must also be satisfied:
It appears to the person making the arrest that it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make the arrest instead
The arrestor has reasonable grounds for believing that the arrest is necessary to prevent one of the following:
The person causing physical injury to himself or others
The person suffering physical injury
The person causing loss of or damage to property
The person absconding before a constable can assume responsibility for him
The person being able to violate a restraint order

The conditions in red were satisfied, without actually seeing the person stealing the goods - the alarm going off was sufficient evidence, IMHO, of reasonable suspicion. And at the time the OP was stopped, it was in order to prevent the OP from absconding before a constable could assume responsibility for him.

adouglasmhor

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

I don't believe you.

A citizen's arrest (officially called an "any person arrest") is permitted to be made on any person under section 24A of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 for an indictable offence, including either way offences (in this section referred to simply as "an offence"), but excluding certain specific ones listed below. It is thus permissible for any person to arrest:
Anyone who is without doubt in the act of committing an offence, or whom the arrestor has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be in the act of committing an offence, and
Where an offence has been committed without doubt, anyone who is without doubt guilty of that offence or whom the arrestor has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it
In order for the arrest to be lawful, the following two conditions must also be satisfied:
It appears to the person making the arrest that it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make the arrest instead
The arrestor has reasonable grounds for believing that the arrest is necessary to prevent one of the following:
The person causing physical injury to himself or others
The person suffering physical injury
The person causing loss of or damage to property
The person absconding before a constable can assume responsibility for him
The person being able to violate a restraint order

The conditions in red were satisfied, without actually seeing the person stealing the goods - the alarm going off was sufficient evidence, IMHO, of reasonable suspicion. And at the time the OP was stopped, it was in order to prevent the OP from absconding before a constable could assume responsibility for him.

As the alarm regularly goes off with no offence being committed, instead staff failing to remove tabs only a complete moron would accept that as reasonable grounds for making an arrest. What they could have done was phoned for the police and followed the person to their car or followed them to where they were going and passed that information along to the police. Of course this would rsult in them being shown up for time wasters.

In this case the fault was in the inventory set up and the self service tills not flashing for call assistance so a member of staff could remove the tabs.

Also

(1) A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—

(a) anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;
(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.

(2) Where an indictable offence has been committed, a person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—

(a) anyone who is guilty of the offence;
(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.

(3) But the power of summary arrest conferred by subsection (1) or (2) is exercisable only if—

(a) the person making the arrest has reasonable grounds for believing that for any of the reasons mentioned in subsection (4) it is necessary to arrest the person in question; and
(b) it appears to the person making the arrest that it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make it instead.

(4) The reasons are to prevent the person in question—

(a) causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
(b) suffering physical injury;
(c) causing loss of or damage to property; or
(d) making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him.

(5) This section does not apply in relation to an offence under Part 3 or Part 3A of the Public Order Act 1986. (racial and religious hatred offences)

http://www.wikicrimeline.co.uk/index.php?title=Citizen%E2%80%99s_arrest#24A_Arrest_without_warrant:_other_persons
Offences Indictable or Summary
http://www.wikicrimeline.co.uk/index.php?title=Citizen%E2%80%99s_arrest#24A_Arrest_without_warrant:_other_persons

Indictable only offences
http://www.wikicrimeline.co.uk/images/8/81/Indictable_only_offence.pdf


Can you show where theft is on the list?

MarkyMarkD

Theft may be tried as an indictable or summary offence, and therefore is eligible for citizen's arrest. Per the quote I provided, theft is an "either way" offence.

adouglasmhor

Also theft act 1978

Section 3 provides:

(1) Subject to subsection (3) below, a person who, knowing that payment on the spot for any goods supplied or service done is required or expected from him, dishonestly makes off without having paid as required or expected and with intent to avoid payment of the amount due shall be guilty of an offence.
(2) For purposes of this section 'payment on the spot' includes payment at the time of collecting goods on which work has been done, or in respect of which service has been provided.
(3) Subsection (1) above shall not apply where the supply of the goods or the doing of the service is contrary to law, or where the service done is such that payment is not legally enforceable.

The following subsection was repealed by the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005:

(4) Any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is, or whom he, with reasonable cause, suspects to be, committing or attempting to commit an offence under this section."

adouglasmhor

Andy347 wrote: »

Actually i think you will find its 100% lawful. :beer:

Providing the Security Officers are licensed by the SIA, had reasonable grounds to believe that you had stolen something from their store (either saw you with their own eyes/saw you on cctv/you set off the alarm),
then they were/are acting fully and totally within the law if they use reasonable force to detain you either inside or outside their store.


Ive spent 11years working in the nightclub security industry and so know exactly what im talking about.

this says otherwise, but security guys rarely know what they are doing anyway. It gets more and more licensed and controlled and they still stuff up.

Also theft act 1978

Section 3 provides:

(1) Subject to subsection (3) below, a person who, knowing that payment on the spot for any goods supplied or service done is required or expected from him, dishonestly makes off without having paid as required or expected and with intent to avoid payment of the amount due shall be guilty of an offence.
(2) For purposes of this section 'payment on the spot' includes payment at the time of collecting goods on which work has been done, or in respect of which service has been provided.
(3) Subsection (1) above shall not apply where the supply of the goods or the doing of the service is contrary to law, or where the service done is such that payment is not legally enforceable.

The following subsection was repealed by the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005:

(4) Any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is, or whom he, with reasonable cause, suspects to be, committing or attempting to commit an offence under this section."

Takoda

I always stand still if I beep when leaving a store. It hardly ever happens but when it does if no one from the shop approaches me then I walk on.

It seems to me that the OP looked like he was legging it.

Takoda

Andy347 wrote: »

Actually i think you will find its 100% lawful. :beer:

Providing the Security Officers are licensed by the SIA, had reasonable grounds to believe that you had stolen something from their store (either saw you with their own eyes/saw you on cctv/you set off the alarm),
then they were/are acting fully and totally within the law if they use reasonable force to detain you either inside or outside their store.


Ive spent 11years working in the nightclub security industry and so know exactly what im talking about.

The OP sounds like a muppet but what he describes doesn't seem to me to be reasonable force at all - it seems heavy handed given the circumstances.

jamespir

all you had to do is show them your shopping

Equaliser123

Andy347 wrote: »

Ive spent 11years working in the nightclub security industry and so know exactly what im talking about.

Sounds like a contradiction in terms to me...

cardinalbiggles

I was in Tesco a few months back and on the way out was stopped by the security guard, he asked to see my receipt. Now I was in a particularly annoyed mood that day and asked "why?" he has no rights to see it, usually I would have just done it but I was in a bad mood.

Anyway, turns out I had left a fiver in the self scan and he was just checking it was my transaction!

There, a good story about a security guard at Tesco.