It's STILL tough and not getting better - so how are we coping?

Edinburghlass_2

mardatha wrote: »

I think deeply personal decisions like this are not for an internet forum discussion, because we are all complex people with many reasons and factors coming into it. I think we should all run our own lives as we see fit really.
I know the pain of repeated miscarriages & wouldnt want to go through that stage of my life again... but yes miracles do happen so chin up and soldier on ladies

Absolutely but ceridwen sees fit to fire her own "verbal thunderbolts" at all and sundry because they don't happen to live their life to fit her rather narrow views.

This ranges from people being married more than once, people not being married, breast feeding in public heaven forbid, single parents all of whom according to her have got pregnant in an attempt to gain benefits or a failed attempt to trap their man to name but a few discussions she has pontificated on.

I'm a single mother and proud of it and worse still an older single mother of one who claimed child benefit and indeed CTC while running my own business and employing several people.

penelopedee_2

There are some good discussions going on here recently, and its lovely that everyone feels they can join in That's why I always feel at home here.

There are many forms of family and mine probably isn't as simple as most. I think one of the nicest and scariest things about being a woman is knowing you may have the chance to give birth one day. Sometimes the chance doesn't happen or is taken away from you or you decide that you don't wish to take the chance. Whatever, you are still a woman, an amazing piece of the big picture that makes the world go round.

Mother nature seems to do as she wishes despite what rules and quotas we can try and throw at her.

If you have the love, patience and tenderness it takes to help a young person into the big wild world go for it and treasure it.

shelley_crow

katholicos wrote: »

Hiya Ceridwen,

About your personal viewpoint, thanks for sharing it. I have read some comments since your/this post and i get the impression that there are actually many facets to your reasoning for not having children.

Though of course, you are perfectly entitled to have more than one reason for not having/wanting children, I would however say this, in response to the reason mentioned in this post of yours...no one knows what is around the corner. A wealthy man can lose his wealth, a loving husband can be a betrayer, a wonderful soul mate can die leaving you to raise your child/children alone (mine did 18 years ago).

Many women like myself are raising children alone in poverty, or pretty darn near it...because our partners/husbands have died, because of divorce etc...but I don't know or know of any one in my position who for one minute has regretted having children. There is nothing on earth that comes close to the immensity of and depth of love that a mother (or father) has for her child. You mention not having wanted to face a future of being poor and raising children in a poor family...and yet some of the poorest families i know are also the happiest families i know. You mention that poverty would have bought you to a place where you had no choices, or rather no finances to make choices...but though i have little say in so many things because of my personal situation, i have so much that you haven't got and while not intending to infer superiority, it must be said that i consider myself richer than your good self, though obviously not financially.

In my time on earth I have met a fairfew people who are childless through choice, and in almost every single instance i have thought 'thank God for that!' ...the reason? Because so many of them were extremely selfish and self absorbed and thought of children as being a burden on themselves and their finances, on their freedom and yes, on society. Now i am most certainly not tarring you with the same brush because i do not know you personally, but i will say that if a person knows they either don't like or want children then there is certainly a case for them not having children.

Ultimately, as long as you are content with your lot in life, and I'm as content with mine as i can be, then all is well with the world. For myself, I care about the planet and the people and animals and habitats within it...but i know that nothing is more natural than procreation...it is primarily what we were put on earth to do, as well as our mission to be good stewards of the earth, of course. So forgive me, but i balk at any mention of population control.

Finally, let me address the last paragraph you wrote.

You mention your father and how you would have expected your husband, had you married, to be of similar mind to him with regard to finance and the family. This is something i can relate to. My Dad is the yardstick by which i now measure men (i didn't always and i suffered for it). My Dad has been a marvellous husband to my mum and father to me and my brother. I feel truly blessed to have him for my Dad. Having said that, our father's shoes are perhaps rather large to fill and speaking for myself, I would be remiss if i were not capable of overlooking some tendencies in other men that i would consider faults. After all, i have enough faults of my own that i would wish for men to overlook!

I'm not sure i have made any/much sense in this post...i have been writing it for a good while now and my head is hurting, i hope i have managed to convey a fairly comprehensive response though.

Katholicos, that has brought a tear to my eye. That was beautifully expressed. I'll admit i'm in the throws of late pregnancy hormones at the moment but honestly, I would thank you again if i could.

narabanekeater

well DD started back to school today so I took DS to playgroup and finally tackled the mountain known as the washing pile. Poor puppy thats still with us is badly upset and loosing her friend still. Dinner tonight was sausage pasta whicy I made enough for left overs tommorow and HM cherry cake for pudding. Boy did I want some of that cake but the diet says no lol
DD is at dancing tommorow so I wont see too much of her
Wishing you all a wonderful weekend

penelopedee_2

Well done at saying no to the cherry cake NBK, I've a bakewell tart in the kitchen that I'm sure is calling to me at the moment.

BB1984

Dammit! I just wrote a really long in-depth post and then my kitten ran over my keyboard and stood on the "esc" key....so I lost the lot - GAR!

To summarise:

- Be nice to each other, people! We can't all agree on everything, so why not just ignore the more personal comments that you don't agree with.
- Thanks for sharing views on motherhood and childlessness - interesting for me as planning to start TTC in the new year. Very exciting but I know we can't assume it'll all happen "just like that"
- bed time now!

BB

charlies-aunt

ceridwen wrote: »

On a different tack - how's your jobhunting going? Any luck yet?

I'm doing 1 to 2 applications a night so far - some are quite straightforward in that they ask for a CV with a covering letter - others are full-on application forms which take a bit of wading through. Even though I work at JC, we are not allowed to use the computers (even in our own lunchtimes) to look for jobs - we have to use the job points so we don't get unfair advantage over other applicants - even part-time cleaning jobs here get 60+ applicants so the competition for every job is really strong.

:j :j * *W A R N I N G ! * * M O A N A L E R T * * * * :j :j

I went for a group interview on Tuesday for a job with new BHS store opening in town...they were very coy about naming what salary they are offering - much was made of the other 'benefits' like free uniform (hideous), holiday and sickness pay (which I thought they were legally obliged to pay anyway!) and that employees get 20% discount but an actual salary/hourly rate wasn't specified. Other people at interview told me that pay starts at £5.80 and progresses to £6.20ish if your performance is satisfactory after the 6 week training period - didn't seem to very attractive to be paid just above minimum wage or maybe I'm just being greedy in expecting more?

From the high-faluting tone of the job ad, the stringent selection process to find the "best of the best", the glossy sophisticated image of the new 'concept store'...and the words "attractive salary" created an expectation that the hourly rate would be a bit more generous than NMW! . - the interview kicked off with a glossy presentation about how swish and exclusive the new store was going to be, how much money had been invested & what a privilege it would be to work in such a palace of wonders - the lucky ones selected would have the prestige of - oh joy of joys! - working for Sir Philip Green himself!! They then moved on to profile what they expect from their "associates" (they don't do shop or retail assistant) - huge emphasis on employees being 'high energy', 'dynamic', 'professional', 'versatile' and 'fast-paced'...and the uniform was something else - a suit, shirt and tie for men and for women it was a slim fitting, sleeveless grey sheath dress with a fancy neck scarf...I'm no fashionista but even I realised that it was the sort of get-up that would need a proper hairdo, heels and full slap to carry off to avoid looking like an extra from Cell Block H! :eek: I don't deny that it looked sophisticated & elegant but doing a full days work in heels and a fancy get up seems like hell to me.

Apparently they had over 1,000 applications - interviewing 60 people a day over 4 days for 120 jobs...but by day 2 of the interviews they were already advertising all the jobs again on the internet . . . I would imagine that its a double bind in that the calibre of employee they want to employ aren't applying because the offered wage isn't sufficient ...and the applicants that will do the job for NMW are judged to be not suitable

:rotfl:* * * A L L C L E A R * * YOU ARE NOW ENTERING MOAN - FREE ZONE * * :rotfl:

We are in the process of tightening our belts another couple of notches and using our spare cash to get stocked up with food, tea, coffee, coal , wash powder - ready to ride it out if I don't get anything - even that bl**dy uniform at BHS is starting to look good :rotfl: ...not really moaning - just very worried about how we can pay the bills this winter.

narabanekeater

Charlies Aunt- I used ot be a manager for one of the major supermarket pre DS. All staff were paid NMW. What was expected of staff was far too much
Infact I know very few retail shops that pay more than about 50p an hour more than NMW and most are NMW. My brother last year earnt £40000+ hes currebtly temping for NMW
NMP is a fantastic thing in my opinion as it at least means companies have to pay at least that. Ive worked for a lot less
Competition is strong for even the NMW jobs here and so many applicants for the job at BHS is no suprise for me. Where I am theres high unemployment. In my opinion the situation out there can only get worse. I havent worked myself since DS and im dreading it when I do go back. Im currently at Uni and college retraining. Im lucky through being thrifty and having what im told is a simple life (home cooking, not using the tumble drier if I dont need to and not having the Dominos pizza delivery man as a best mate) we can afford for me not to work.
Ive seen how being unempoyed 'got to' my brother. Its not a nice situation to be in. Wishing you luck to find the perfect job xx

purpleheather2810

Kitcaboodle wrote: »

Congratulations Gailey!

DS and I registered at the local library today - though he's a bit young to be checking out books just yet! I've been to baby signing classes through the children's centre already (which again, he was a bit young for!) and will be taking him to a stay and play session tomorrow. I hope the council don't cut funding for the children's centres as they seem a great idea (and are free!)

Agree! Surestart is great. Has got me through so much in the past 6 years while raising (struggling at times) my 2 daughters. It doesn't matter if your baby is too young - it's good for YOU to get out there and make friends etc. I am still friends with people I met at a baby group when dd1 was born (she is 6 next month :eek: ). We have been through so much together.

charlies-aunt

Its high unemployment here too . . . . back in the late 80's as highly qualified professionals in managerial jobs, our combined salary was 50K+ ...now - thirty plus years on - its less than half that but as our income has dropped, bills and costs have signficantly gone up making the gap even wider.

DH was redundant last year and after nearly 6 months got a NMW job - but lost 15k in salary.

Can't and don't want to live in the past, the prsent is do-able but the future is a bit scarey!

Counting our blessings as we are rich in the things money can't buy

...no wonder Sir Philip Green is a millionaire though!