It's STILL tough and not getting better - so how are we coping?

gailey_2

Thanks guys feel bad for those trying or given up on kids.
Do feel lucky as have freinds with fertility problems its so hard.
I was adopted and its turned out ok altough my mam and sister are loons.
I have a freind who fosters and adopts plus her own kids.
went to one od eldests freinds parties and his grandmother was fostering 2sisters she had also done few newborn tiny babies from drug addicts as they hard to place.

I hope perhaps one day when my lot grown up and we live in lovley mansion hubby might consider the idea will have to see.
Seriously thinking of retraining to be a social worker as think it would make a difference.

Must admit im not really an eco warrier although do come accross as hippy mum using cloth and feeding until age 1.

I guess points I mentioned in other post ofsets the damage caused by overpopulating with 1 more child.

have not been as busy as woild have liked kids been little tikes this afternoon washed up cleared carnage that is lounge.
need to do quick tidy, washing and tea before hubbys home at 7.
eldests at cheerleading ,baby asleep on lap tiny bit of peace for a change.

taplady

well done to Mr Kezlou!:T:beer:

parsonswife8

gailey wrote: »

Thanks guys feel bad for those trying or given up on kids.
Do feel lucky as have freinds with fertility problems its so hard.
I was adopted and its turned out ok altough my mam and sister are loons.
I have a freind who fosters and adopts plus her own kids.
went to one od eldests freinds parties and his grandmother was fostering 2sisters she had also done few newborn tiny babies from drug addicts as they hard to place.

I hope perhaps one day when my lot grown up and we live in lovley mansion hubby might consider the idea will have to see.
Seriously thinking of retraining to be a social worker as think it would make a difference.

Must admit im not really an eco warrier although do come accross as hippy mum using cloth and feeding until age 1.

I guess points I mentioned in other post ofsets the damage caused by overpopulating with 1 more child.

have not been as busy as woild have liked kids been little tikes this afternoon washed up cleared carnage that is lounge.
need to do quick tidy, washing and tea before hubbys home at 7.
eldests at cheerleading ,baby asleep on lap tiny bit of peace for a change.

You are not overpopulating at 3 children, Gailey

Just look after yourself, lady.

We are all here for you.

Have a very big hug (((((((Gailey)))))))) and give yourself some time to relax.

littleowl

katholicos wrote: »

Hiya Ceridwen,

I have some cognitive problems sometimes so I may sound a bit dim but the first part of your comment about Malthus... i don't understand.

In answer to your other question....I don't know anything much about the Population Institute, just came across that video online recently and remembered it so because we were talking about the subject of population control, linked to it as i thought someone might find it interesting.

About your personal viewpoint, thanks for sharing it. I have read some comments since your/this post and i get the impression that there are actually many facets to your reasoning for not having children.

Though of course, you are perfectly entitled to have more than one reason for not having/wanting children, I would however say this, in response to the reason mentioned in this post of yours...no one knows what is around the corner. A wealthy man can lose his wealth, a loving husband can be a betrayer, a wonderful soul mate can die leaving you to raise your child/children alone (mine did 18 years ago).

Many women like myself are raising children alone in poverty, or pretty darn near it...because our partners/husbands have died, because of divorce etc...but I don't know or know of any one in my position who for one minute has regretted having children. There is nothing on earth that comes close to the immensity of and depth of love that a mother (or father) has for her child. You mention not having wanted to face a future of being poor and raising children in a poor family...and yet some of the poorest families i know are also the happiest families i know. You mention that poverty would have bought you to a place where you had no choices, or rather no finances to make choices...but though i have little say in so many things because of my personal situation, i have so much that you haven't got and while not intending to infer superiority, it must be said that i consider myself richer than your good self, though obviously not financially.

In my time on earth I have met a fairfew people who are childless through choice, and in almost every single instance i have thought 'thank God for that!' ...the reason? Because so many of them were extremely selfish and self absorbed and thought of children as being a burden on themselves and their finances, on their freedom and yes, on society. Now i am most certainly not tarring you with the same brush because i do not know you personally, but i will say that if a person knows they either don't like or want children then there is certainly a case for them not having children.

Ultimately, as long as you are content with your lot in life, and I'm as content with mine as i can be, then all is well with the world. For myself, I care about the planet and the people and animals and habitats within it...but i know that nothing is more natural than procreation...it is primarily what we were put on earth to do, as well as our mission to be good stewards of the earth, of course. So forgive me, but i balk at any mention of population control.

Finally, let me address the last paragraph you wrote.

You mention your father and how you would have expected your husband, had you married, to be of similar mind to him with regard to finance and the family. This is something i can relate to. My Dad is the yardstick by which i now measure men (i didn't always and i suffered for it). My Dad has been a marvellous husband to my mum and father to me and my brother. I feel truly blessed to have him for my Dad. Having said that, our father's shoes are perhaps rather large to fill and speaking for myself, I would be remiss if i were not capable of overlooking some tendencies in other men that i would consider faults. After all, i have enough faults of my own that i would wish for men to overlook!

I'm not sure i have made any/much sense in this post...i have been writing it for a good while now and my head is hurting, i hope i have managed to convey a fairly comprehensive response though.

I think my position is somewhere down the middle here. I have two adult children and have never regretted them. I thoroughly enjoyed their childhood and am great friends now with one although have regrettably lost touch with the other (not my doing) which is a source of great pain.
However, if I were to do it again, I don't think I would have children. In fact, I don't think I would get married. Perhaps that means I am selfish - or perhaps it is because I now have a better understanding of the world and would be reluctant to add to the population. This is a personal point of view and I would never expect others to conform to my ideas.

smileyt_2

I made a decision years ago not to have children, because I have such low energy that I just could not see how I would cope. I have never regretted this on an emotional level because I think for me it was the right decision. Similarly this lack of energy has hindered me meeting 'the right person' but I'm not one to dwell on what might have been. I have godchildren and that's enough. I also offer supported lodgings to young people and have hosted overseas teenagers for a year at a time. So in fact I am a mother of sorts to five young people, 2 godchildren (plus several animals :rotfl:) even though I didn't give birth to them. It's been hard energy-wise looking after the teenagers but they are not in need of constant attention so it's copeable with.

The only thing I that sometimes concerns me is who will look out for me in my old age? But then again, you shouldn't have children as an insurance policy.

Being an OS parent must also, surely, allow for healthier children as you won't be stuffing them with junk food all the time and will value spending time with them vs sticking them on the play station to get them out of the way?

ceridwen

katholicos wrote: »

Hiya Ceridwen,

I have some cognitive problems sometimes so I may sound a bit dim but the first part of your comment about Malthus... i don't understand.

In answer to your other question....I don't know anything much about the Population Institute, just came across that video online recently and remembered it so because we were talking about the subject of population control, linked to it as i thought someone might find it interesting.

About your personal viewpoint, thanks for sharing it. I have read some comments since your/this post and i get the impression that there are actually many facets to your reasoning for not having children.

Though of course, you are perfectly entitled to have more than one reason for not having/wanting children, I would however say this, in response to the reason mentioned in this post of yours...no one knows what is around the corner. A wealthy man can lose his wealth, a loving husband can be a betrayer, a wonderful soul mate can die leaving you to raise your child/children alone (mine did 18 years ago).

Many women like myself are raising children alone in poverty, or pretty darn near it...because our partners/husbands have died, because of divorce etc...but I don't know or know of any one in my position who for one minute has regretted having children. There is nothing on earth that comes close to the immensity of and depth of love that a mother (or father) has for her child. You mention not having wanted to face a future of being poor and raising children in a poor family...and yet some of the poorest families i know are also the happiest families i know. You mention that poverty would have bought you to a place where you had no choices, or rather no finances to make choices...but though i have little say in so many things because of my personal situation, i have so much that you haven't got and while not intending to infer superiority, it must be said that i consider myself richer than your good self, though obviously not financially.

In my time on earth I have met a fairfew people who are childless through choice, and in almost every single instance i have thought 'thank God for that!' ...the reason? Because so many of them were extremely selfish and self absorbed and thought of children as being a burden on themselves and their finances, on their freedom and yes, on society. Now i am most certainly not tarring you with the same brush because i do not know you personally, but i will say that if a person knows they either don't like or want children then there is certainly a case for them not having children.

Ultimately, as long as you are content with your lot in life, and I'm as content with mine as i can be, then all is well with the world. For myself, I care about the planet and the people and animals and habitats within it...but i know that nothing is more natural than procreation...it is primarily what we were put on earth to do, as well as our mission to be good stewards of the earth, of course. So forgive me, but i balk at any mention of population control.

Finally, let me address the last paragraph you wrote.

You mention your father and how you would have expected your husband, had you married, to be of similar mind to him with regard to finance and the family. This is something i can relate to. My Dad is the yardstick by which i now measure men (i didn't always and i suffered for it). My Dad has been a marvellous husband to my mum and father to me and my brother. I feel truly blessed to have him for my Dad. Having said that, our father's shoes are perhaps rather large to fill and speaking for myself, I would be remiss if i were not capable of overlooking some tendencies in other men that i would consider faults. After all, i have enough faults of my own that i would wish for men to overlook!

I'm not sure i have made any/much sense in this post...i have been writing it for a good while now and my head is hurting, i hope i have managed to convey a fairly comprehensive response though.

Thank you for your lengthy reply. I was considering whether I should "step away" from MSE after some of the comments (as they felt like very personal ones against me and I was thinking "Why would I bother - for that?") - but yours is a reasoned post - if a different way of thinking in some respects to mine. So thank you for reading my post properly and commenting on what I actually said - rather than, as some have, what they thought or read into what I said.

The Malthus comment was down to the fact that the website your video-ette you quoted came from stated that that was Malthus' view - hence I went looking for evidence of that fact and didnt find it and decided to stop looking when I spotted the bit about we could all cram onto quite a small bit of land between us (making no mention that a lot of our Planet has desert/the Arctic/mountains/etc and isnt conducive to human habitation). I have since had a look at their website - as I wanted to see "where they came from" and found:

http://www.pop.org/20090117804/our-founder

The website I take my facts from - well - I'll quote the equivalent page as to "where they come from":

http://www.optimumpopulation.org/opt.aboutus.html

You are correct that I personally have many facets as to why I don't have/want children personally. As with many important issues - there are usually a variety of reasons as to why people have made the decision they have and I have several reasons as to why not (each of which is valid in its own right). Personally - I see there are selfish people from all persuasions regardless of whether they do or don't have children. Some people just are - some aren't and their "status" or otherwise as parents/non-parents has little bearing on that. I have noticed many childless people doing worthwhile voluntary work for the community that they simply would not have been able to do if they had also been trying to raise a family at the same time. I could not have done what I have done in the way of voluntary work if I had had the time/money constraints that would have accompanied being a parent.

i also believe we are here on Earth for a reason - well for a variety of reasons. I believe too that we are meant to be stewards of the Earth. I believe that we are here personally as a "School for Learning". One thing I can see clearly is Earth is no "holiday camp" - it's much more like the harshest Boot Camp I could think of...and it piles on the "life lessons" fast and furious for most of us. I admit to feeling "very tired" sometimes at a deep level from many years "learning" - and then have to remind myself that actually I am in a better position than most of the rest of the World's population (so I dread to think just how "tired" they are from everything they have been through).

Anyways - we will have to agree to differ on the fundamental viewpoint re population - but thank you for a civil response rather than "verbal thunderbolts" thrown at me because I have a different opinion to you.

charlies-aunt

After 9 years of trying, lots of fertility treatments, investigations, etc etc, - we were told that we had no possibility of having our own child ... so we got approved as foster carers and adopters.

At the end of February 1991, a 2 year old girl (DD1) was placed with us for adoption ...and on Christmas Eve 1991, I gave birth to DD2.

Miracles can happen

mardatha

I think deeply personal decisions like this are not for an internet forum discussion, because we are all complex people with many reasons and factors coming into it. I think we should all run our own lives as we see fit really.
I know the pain of repeated miscarriages & wouldnt want to go through that stage of my life again... but yes miracles do happen so chin up and soldier on ladies

ceridwen

charlies-aunt wrote: »

After 9 years of trying, lots of fertility treatments, investigations, etc etc, - we were told that we had no possibility of having our own child ... so we got approved as foster carers and adopters.

At the end of February 1991, a 2 year old girl (DD1) was placed with us for adoption ...and on Christmas Eve 1991, I gave birth to DD2.

Miracles can happen

I've heard of that happening frequently actually - ie people having given up hope and adopting and then, finally, a child of their own just comes along shortly after. I believe theres some sorta explanation about people "relaxing" and stopping "efforting" at a deep level - as they think "I've got a child now and I'm a parent at last - so it doesnt matter quite so much" and thats it....an unexpected happy event happens once they arent "stressing" quite so much about it.:)

On a different tack - how's your jobhunting going? Any luck yet?

maryb

I signed up for an Open University course to take my mind off things after my third miscarriage

I've known quite a few people (including myself!!) who then found that a little unexpected arrival meant they didn't get very far

Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans