How are third and pass degrees regarded these days?

inkie

I got a 2:2 and worked jolly hard by doing it PT, whilst working as a midwife and having 2 kids under 3 (the youngest I managed to have in the summer break - and when I returned in Sept she came with me and sat breastfeeding through the lectures!)

TBH - in my profession it doesn't make any difference what classification of degree you have. And as an employer, as long as someone had the required degree I didn't give a monkeys about and most of the time wasn't aware of the classification

talksalot81

inkie wrote:

TBH - in my profession it doesn't make any difference what classification of degree you have. And as an employer, as long as someone had the required degree I didn't give a monkeys about and most of the time wasn't aware of the classification

That does seem to be the case in medical subjects (on a personal rant, this may be part explanation why some medics are great whilst identically qualified individuals are shockingly bad). Of course it must be said that those with the best degrees are more likely to advance further up the ladder.

DrFluffy

talksalot81 wrote:

That does seem to be the case in medical subjects (on a personal rant, this may be part explanation why some medics are great whilst identically qualified individuals are shockingly bad). Of course it must be said that those with the best degrees are more likely to advance further up the ladder.

This has changed of late. The new system for allocation of post-qualification jobs ranks medical students academically (to try to avoid the farce that was last years MDAP process). It is *hoped* that students with poor ranking will be those without jobs, which incidentally is a little bit of a shame as there is a hell of a lot more to medicine than academics...

Also - even those you class as poor doctors have satisfied the minimum requirement as set by the GMC. I was talking to a medical educationalist a few months back re: med school and should we receive classified degrees, and the truth of the mater is that a 50% scraped pass in medicine is probably akin to a 2i/2ii border for most other degrees, as the stakes are higher in med (the whole life and death/trust/etc issue)

studentphil

The MBChB is not an Honours degee is it anyway?I know from speaking to medical students that they take the extra year and get the BSc(hons) that is offered in medical sciences to help them compete for the best jobs

DrFluffy

studentphil wrote:

The MBChB is not an Honours degee is it anyway?I know from speaking to medical students that they take the extra year and get the BSc(hons) that is offered in medical sciences to help them compete for the best jobs

No, the degree is still an honours degree (lack of dissertaion is made up for by compulsory SSMs), just not classified. You can intercalate (IMHO half a degree ), and that degree is classified as normal.

There is also a system of 'honours' in place that is separate - for instance this is ours:

At the discretion of the examiners, a candidate may be awarded the Degree ‘with Distinction’. Distinctions are a University of London award and will be cited on the degree certificate. Distinctions are awarded on the basis of sustained excellence over a period of time. Any candidate who fails any Part of the Degree may not be awarded a Distinction.

Three Distinctions will operate in the 5-year MBBS programme from 2003-04, until further notice:

'Distinction in Medical Sciences' for excellence in Parts 1 and 2
'Distinction in Clinical Science' for excellence in Parts 3 and 4
'Distinction in Clinical Practice' for excellence at Part 6.

At the discretion of the examiners, a candidate may be awarded a Pass ‘with Merit’ for any Part of the Degree. Merits are a Queen Mary, University of London award and will be cited in degree transcripts but not on degree certificates.

I can only comment on one of them at this stage in my career, but to get the UoL distinction in medical sciences you basically need to get above 70% in all exams (i.e. the equivalent of firsts) in years 1 and 2. However if you fail anything later on, you lose it... *Fluffy keeps fingers crossed that that doesn't happen to her*

Same sort of thing happens with 'Exit with Grace':

If, following the successful completion of Parts 1, 2 and 3 of the Degree of MBBS, together with the successful completion of the Selected Study components of Stages 1 to 3 inclusive, a student withdraws from the MBBS Programme, s/he will be eligible for consideration for the award of the Degree of BSc in Medical Studies. This will be an unclassified honours degree.

studentphil

So it is MBChB(Hons) but rather than using 1st 2nd 3rd they use merit and Distinctions, is that right?

DrFluffy

No - you never need to add (Hons) as there is no such thing as an 'ordinary' degree. They are all honours...

The system of merits and distinctions is a bit more cut throat than 1sts, 2nds etc, as you usually need to get 70% or above in everything - it's not a case of it being an average of all your preformances. To give an example a really good friend of mine got something like:
Paper A1 - 86%
Paper A2 - 86%
Paper A3 - 84%
Paper B - not sure and didn't press them, but I know they didn't get above 70%

So no merit for them . However, the academic rankings at the end of the 5th year are summative, so although they didn't get a merit, they might be higher in the rankings than someone who did.

confussed yet? Lol!

studentphil

It is logical and I do see how it works but it must be awfully complex to compare a student with another because one paper cuts out the merit but yet at the end they could be better qualified than someone with a merit.

It is a hugely complex system almost a bit like giving unis 18 A level module scores and then trying to them work out stuff from that.

talksalot81

DrFluffy wrote:

Also - even those you class as poor doctors have satisfied the minimum requirement as set by the GMC. I was talking to a medical educationalist a few months back re: med school and should we receive classified degrees, and the truth of the mater is that a 50% scraped pass in medicine is probably akin to a 2i/2ii border for most other degrees, as the stakes are higher in med (the whole life and death/trust/etc issue)

I might be unusual, but irrlevant of the difficulty, I am not totally comfortable knowing my medic may get things wrong upwards of half the time!

My experience of medics has me totally scared to go near them! Simple things, yes their seems to be little trouble. But time after time, slightly difficult situations have led to misdiagnosis or simply no diagnosis at all. I would really love to know how to find a medic who I can trust to go to with such an 'awkward' condition and not end up coming out with 'stress' as the only explanation!

ftbworried

abisnail75 wrote:

As for a first, it's great but I would have reservations about interpersonal skills hence the need for interviews.

:eek:

I cannot believe that you would think that just because someone has a first that they mustn't be able to interact with people! You don't get a first for being a recluse! I have a first and it's worrying to think that a potential employer would have something negative to say/think about it. Infact, it really dissapoints me.

You get a first in a subject- not for sitting on your own, learning facts, you get it for having originality or independance of thought not seen in most of the students. Perhaps you have that spark of talent that makes you stand out? It doesn't mean that you made studying your life....in my opinion 1:1s don't come out of pure hard work, there has to be something else there.

Perhaps I'd never thought of the possibility that my potential employer might have a lower degree class than me and has some bitterness about candidates who did better than them at university, and therefore might invent some totally pathetic excuse as to why they have reservations about my application ("I might have no interpersonal skills because I was good at my subject! Ridicuous!").