LL has unexpectedly died - we are subject to probate..help!

Tygermoth

Hi there SuzyM,

The estate was quite large. The main house and deer park was sold off a number of years ago 30/40 yrs. The fields hereabouts are all part of the estate remaining and these cottages and a few other dwellings all we were advised could not be sold because the Trustees would not agree due to them belonging to the estate whole

The Son had attempted to broker a deal with a large home builder for the cottages (long before we moved in) which was shot down in flames by the Estate Trustees Legal team and he even advised us that they had him nailed down with these cottages so he could not ‘cash them in’ (he is due to gain these if the LL holds true to her promises in her will)

So I am hoping the assessment for probate is just to tally up the estate and it will be just handed down to the beneficiaries (the son and daughter.. who are at war) with the Estate still being kept as a whole and enforced. It would be sad for the remaining family to tear it up and sell the assets. (Both the son and daughter are renown locally for large debts unpaid and poor money management)

We only dealt with the local estate agent re our property and sadly no longer know who the land agent is, or where they are based.

G_M

Tygermoth wrote: »

Hello all,

The property was in a poor condition but over the last five years we have done wonders with the place. Added log burners, restored the oak flooring hidden under filthy nasty worn carpets, plumbed the outhouse to make a utility. repaired and updated the drive and fencing as well as bring the garden under control and reglazing the green house. We treated the house as our own because of the assurance this would be a long term let as promised. (the rest of the cottages are let and we are the shortest, most others have been there upwards of 10 years to 35 years adding credence to their assurances)Did you have permission to make changes, preferably written?

so to my questions….

Does probate mean the house will be have to be sold? Not necessarily.

Will taxes payable be due immediately after probate is resolved? No. Before. See gov website here. "The personal representative won't be granted probate until some or all of any Inheritance Tax that is due on the estate has been paid."
(the family and estate are pretty much broke and make it more likely property/assets will have to be sold to pay taxes)If the deceased is 'broke' then there may be no tax to pay - esp if there are debts to offset the value of the estate. However those debts if any would have to be paid by the deceased's estate before probate could be granted: which might necessitate a sale.

How long can a contentious probate take (I guess the answer here is going to be 'how long is a piece of string'…) added to the mix the family of the deceased are fighting hard and dirty already over monies/land and properties left. 6? 12? months... but as stated, probate will not be granted till AFTER debts and taxes are paid...

Does the fact we are tenant afford us any rights? If you have a 12 month contract which expires in November, you can not be evisted till November at earliest. The fact that your landlord is now the Executers rather than the original LL does not alter your rights. As others have said, even after Nov there is a process involved (court orders) which takes time.

I have been told they have to offer the house to us, if put up for sale, at a reduced rateNo. (I think this is codswallop Yes! ..

We don’t have the funds to get a months rent in hand, deposit and ref fees for a new place and really are bricking it! so any insight would be great.

You could offer to move out earlier by mutual agreement, making the Trustees/executers life easier, in return for them giving you enough for a deposit/1st month rent elsewhere, or in return for them letting you off the last months rent. And /or point out you have considerably added value to the property over the years. Again, by negotiation they might help you with moving costs.

jockosjungle

Nobody is saying the house will be sold, its being valued for probate! They need to know how much the estate is worth, they're not necessarily selling it. If i were you i'd keep saving just in case you need to move but you've received nothing that should massively worry you

SouthCoast

the son and daughter.. who are at war

If this has to be resolved in the courts it could take years.

Tygermoth

Thank you G_M,

You gave me what I needed to know.

As Taxes would be due, and I know the estate is very cash poor and asset rich, they will HAVE to sell something to pay the bill.

All the cottages are in very poor condition except ours (as we have done it up - with the estates permission) I will assume ours will be more saleable than the rest. Also all the other occupants have very very old tenancies which seem to give them more security.

So if I was to be pessimistic we have about 6 months to save about 3K (what it took to move in here. Total.



(edit, this was 5 years ago.... Its going to be more now, i expect)

Paul_the_Painter

1. Nothing should happen in a hurry - you've got until November minimum.

2. I'm a bit confused as to who the "Trustees" are. If the estate was placed into Trust, there should not be an inheritance tax issue, therefore the houses would not need to be valued. The "Trustees" may have been appointed to manage the owners affairs after he/she became incapable of doing so him/herself.

3. On the plus side - the family is broke! If they were OK financially, but couldn't be bothered with the estate, they would pay the tax bill, get grant of probate, then flog the lot.

4. Estate break-ups/sales can drag on for years, the houses are unattractive as they have sitting tenants (generally), there can be certain other rights or obligations to sort out. There is no main house, so a rich Russian won't be interested.

I'd be saving like mad until you had a few grand sat in your account (in case it all does happen quickly), then keep on saving for a deposit for a mortgage, so if it ever does look like it is coming on the market, you can make them an offer before it goes on the open market.

It would be ideal for you if there was a dispute over the will, that coupled with an estate sale means you could be renting for years yet!

Suzy_M

Who exactly was the letter from? (posiiton / relationship not name obviously)

Was it on 'official' headed notepaper?

timmyt

Tygermoth wrote: »

Hello all,

Need a bit of info about how inheritance and probate works. This is not for me but involves me in the long run.. I will explain.

We took on a dilapidated cottage on a country estate as a long term rent (renewed every twelve months) The agreement was via the landowner + Trustees and we were assured that the property could not be sold due to it belonging to the estate whole. (our last LL of four years sold the house from under us without telling us until the day after he signed the house over to the new owners…. so we did not want to be in this position again)

The property was in a poor condition but over the last five years we have done wonders with the place. Added log burners, restored the oak flooring hidden under filthy nasty worn carpets, plumbed the outhouse to make a utility. repaired and updated the drive and fencing as well as bring the garden under control and reglazing the green house. We treated the house as our own because of the assurance this would be a long term let as promised. (the rest of the cottages are let and we are the shortest, most others have been there upwards of 10 years to 35 years adding credence to their assurances)

Saturday we had a hand delivered letter advising that the Landowner had sadly and unexpectedly died and this property was to be valued for probate immediately.

Now this has put the wind up us as we were specifically advised the property could not be sold under any circumstances. so to my questions….

Does probate mean the house will be have to be sold?

Will taxes payable be due immediately after probate is resolved? (the family and estate are pretty much broke and make it more likely property/assets will have to be sold to pay taxes)

How long can a contentious probate take (I guess the answer here is going to be 'how long is a piece of string'…) added to the mix the family of the deceased are fighting hard and dirty already over monies/land and properties left.

Does the fact we are tenant afford us any rights?

I have been told they have to offer the house to us, if put up for sale, at a reduced rate (I think this is codswallop and may be confused with social housing, but the person in question is adamant this is the case)

We don’t have the funds to get a months rent in hand, deposit and ref fees for a new place and really are bricking it! so any insight would be great.

the death of an owner may mean the house is to be sold depending on who gets it under the will.

you will then receive notice under the tenancy.

you have no rights except the tenancy contractual term.

sorry

Zelie

If any surveyor comes round to value the property make sure you tell them which of the improvements you paid for. They are yours and naturally you will be taking them with you when you move.

OK, not really. But if you do as you should and state you'll return the property in the condition you got it (discounting wear and tear) then the value of the property will be less than if your improvements are counted as part of the value. Possibly not by a huge amount but if there is a possibility of buying it yourselves then you'll want it valued as cheaply as possible.

Tygermoth

Hi all.

Thought I would give an update.

T'other half and I sat down last night and drew up a battle plan. We have planned for just about every contingency and spending right up to worst case scenario of having board the pets while we live with the MIL until we find somewhere and just about every other eventuality in between.

I find it much easier to cope with uncertainties if I know the likelihood of outcome and therefore can make plans. I get SO stressed (and I mean STRESSED) if its all up in the air and I cant get a handle on it.

So thank you all for assisting me in getting that much needed perspective to allowing us to have a general idea of timeframes.

*tips her hat to you all*