Probs with gas in rented property

silvercar

Surely the pilot light would only be on if the heating or fire was on? I'm genuinly new to this kind of system, so just trying to look at it logically. Can it be right that the only way to stop the heating system consuming gas is to shut the supply off? If so what is the point of the controls?

The pilot light stays on all the time with older systems. Its designed so that a flame is constantly lit ready to light the whole burner if the boiler fires up. This is completely normal. Newer systems have electric sparks which fire until the gas "catches" and lights up the boiler. So yes, a small amount of gas willbe consumed with this system. The controls are to control the heating and hot water - obviously switching them on uses far more gas.

So where do I stand? Is it right that they've broken the law in not providing and EPC as we were new tenants circe Feb this year? Or is it just the law to have on (I understand they've valid of 10 years). My hunch at this stage is they don't have one, because if they applied for one the guy could well say this needs to be replaced like yesterday.

It may be against the law. If one was produced it may sure that the property is not that energy efficient - but that would also look at things like loft insulation, cavity walls, double glazing and energy efficient light bulbs. The boiler is only part of the score. Other things being equal an inefficent boiler, even one with a constant pilot light, would lower the score of a property. There is no requirement for the landlord to offer the property with a certain rating. So the net effect of giving you the EPC would mean that you would know the boiler was not efficient; something you could probably guess at by looking at it.

BaldPlumber

davidgmmafan wrote: »

Surely the pilot light would only be on if the heating or fire was on? I'm genuinly new to this kind of system, so just trying to look at it logically. Can it be right that the only way to stop the heating system consuming gas is to shut the supply off? If so what is the point of the controls?

The pilot light on older appliances was the main safety feature. Its purpose was to deploy onto the sensor of a thermocouple, a device which when heated produces a few millivolts of electricity - just enough power to hold open a valve which allows the passage of gas when opened by the gas valve in response to a demand for heat.

So in these appliances a small pilot is on all the time. In modern appliances there is still a pilot light, but this is only ignited electronically when there is again, a demand for heat. Instead of a thermocouple, the presence of the pilot is checked in a process known as rectification and once it is proved, the main gas supply can be opened.

Permanent pilot lights are unlikely to be on appliances less than about 15 years old.

Owain_Moneysaver

A quick google suggests a pilot light might cost about £40 a year.

It should be visible/audible if you lie on your tummy and look under the front/bottom of the gas fire.

clutton_2

i have now lost the plot of this thread.... if OP has a Landlords Gas Safety Certificate... what is the moan about ? except that it is an old boiler... if you dont like it... move somewhere else.. the boiler was there when you moved in ..... you could see it was old.. the LL appears to have maintained it from what your last post says .. i dont understand what you are asking for here ?


The insane thing about EPCs (and why LLs were against them) .. is that a house can be rated as the coldest house in the northern hemisphere and there are NO LEGAL TEETH to force a LL to do anything about it if s/he does not want to... so moaning is pointless.... its crazy legislation - and only helps those who assess properties for the damned certificate... but its the EEC in its wisdom and we can do nowt to change it....


after reading this last post of OP - it seems that he may have a gripe with the LL if he did not provide you with an EPC - ask for one.. dont Demand.. that never gets a good response....

and when you have got it ... then what will you do... ? be as cold as you are now.. spend as much money on your gas bill as you are now ? yes..... so tgell me - what is the point of asking for an EPC other than to say "i exercised my rights" - and of course you are perfectly legally entitled to do so

clutton_2

BaldP - i think if memory serves from my old floor standing mammoth Potterton boilers, that if the pilot light went out you smelt the gas - another safety feature !! (this boiler lasted nearly 30 years.)

BaldPlumber

clutton wrote: »

BaldP - i think if memory serves from my old floor standing mammoth Potterton boilers, that if the pilot light went out you smelt the gas - another safety feature !! (this boiler lasted nearly 30 years.)

The pilot light extinguishing must stop the passing of all gas, via the electro-magnet held open by the thermocouple, within 30 seconds - this is one of the tests that must be done. You know the valve has shut when you hear a loud 'clonk' from the gas valve. It's only then that you can start your gas soundness tests.

I keep an old floor-stander going that was installed in 1965. It's absolute rubbish.

davidgmmafan

I've solved the problem, so far as I can tell it was twofold. BTW the heating system is called Glow-rom Majorca 346 N, I am now somewhat of an expert on lighting the pilot light and switching it off.

As some suspected that was the problem, if you turn the hearing/hot water off the pilot light stays on. Having messed about with it a little bit, trying deperately to follow the intructions, I've finally mastered the particular combination to turn it back on. It seems fairly reliable so I can turn if off not since we don't need it.

It did still seem that there was some usage when I'd double and triple checked the pilot light was off. This is more difficult than it sounds there is a tiny hole for you to look through to see the pilot light. For some reason I could only see it when laid on my right hand side. Anyway the second issue is to do with the part that was fitted. As I said earlier they don't make parts for this system anymore but there was one from a similar system that fits. The only problem is that it is slightly longer. Without realizing it when I put the cosmetic front back on the fire it was depressing this button which sticks out a little further than it should.

This button if the one you press in, in addition to the lighting thing (there must be a name for it but it escapes me), when you are re-lighting the pilot light. So I figure that must allow a small ish amount of gas to pass through. Remove the front and after ample observation there is no gas registering on the meter.

That probably explains why I could smell gas once or twice, a small amount was being released. So I can either leave the front off, its just a little fascia to cover the controls relating to the pilot light at the bottom or cut a small hole in it. I might ask the estate agents guy in the area to do that.

So that's it then on the gas front, it works, its safe and I'm happy. Might still purchase a carbon monoxide detector to be on the safe side, but for now its one less thing to worry about. I'm not bothered about the EPC thing, was only going to use it if there was a genuine fault and they were being difficult. They didn't provide it, but I didn't ask. I knew the fire and heating system was old, and this reflected somewhat when they dropped the rental price and bond, must've been putting others off too.

I just hope if/when it does finally pack up they get it replaced quickly.

BTW the only thing I'm wondering now is if the marks on either side of the fire could've been caused by gas? I can't see what else it would be as the walls aren't damp, but there it feels cold and sort of most to the touch.

Might as well monopolize the experts whilst I'm here... There is some stuff in the garage/shed, including random bits of wood, some wheel trims and a cement mixer. Would it be reasonable to ask for these to be removed given that there's nothing about it in the tenancy agreement?

Thanks for help and info, there's nothing worse than now knowing something.

clutton_2

do you want to use the garage / shed ? if so go ahead and ask - glad you worked out the fire ignition system....

olly300

clutton wrote: »

do you want to use the garage / shed ? if so go ahead and ask - glad you worked out the fire ignition system....

You have a lot of patience.

clutton_2

no - there's not much on't tele tonight !!