Probs with gas in rented property

davidgmmafan

Hi all,

This is a bit long so you might want to take a deep breath, take a break halfway through or put the kettle on...

Hoping for some sagely advice from the experienced landlords and tenants that I've seen frequent these forums. Ok I'll turn the flattery off then 'cos there's a fair chance you might abuse me once you read the background (I know, I know there's always some background, I'll keep as brief as I can).

After years of renting of an acquintance, its complicated, lets leave it at that, moved into proper rented accommodation. Wasn't keen on paying letters agent in the region of two hundred pounds simply to complete a credit search when I know this costs far less. Therefore we ended up moving in with a private landlord.

Well kinda, he advertised with the private landlords association in my area. Turns out this bloke is working for a letting agent based a long way away, but they have properties in this ares and he's thier man in the area.

When we first looked round we were keen, and he said anyproblems contact me directly. Since then we had a letter saying unless its an emergency contact the office directly or else be charged twenty pounds. I assumed this was normal and that he'd done his bit in renting the proerty out.

However when the gas safety inspection was due in June (and this is where I started to get alarmed) the chap doing it informed me that the letting agent were only giving the guy who showed round two days work per week recently so he'd had no option but to take another job. He didn't say as much but is was fairly obvious they were mates and this is how he knew this, and why he does all thier gas work.

He also said all of that companies houses that he does have really old boilers. Anyway we were told the gas safety thing would take about half an hour. Two and a half hours later he's still there. There is a problem, the pressure is dropping, which apparently shoudln't happen.

He eventually left saying he needed part, having cut the gas off as it wasn't safe. He returned within a couple of days to fit the part (I have been late for work twice because of this, making the time up each time).

As I work for a power supplier a couple of days ago I jotted down the meter readings and decided to work out roughly what I'd used since I switched to my chosen supplier. It was somewhat more than I was expecting given the warm weather. I noticed yesterday that the meter reading had move despite no gas appliances being used. On a quick calculation one pound sixty of gas had passed through the meter in two days despite ZERO usage.

I turned the cut out lever (or whatever its called) to off and the meter stopped. I have already written to the estate agent expressing concern about a mark on the walls either side of the fire.

I knew when we moved in the fire was old, but not being familiar with back boilers I assumed it was just a fire and the boiler was located elsewhere. This is where I anticipated the flaming would begin, all I cans ay in my defence is that the tenants guide to renting says nobody will actually cover all of the points.

We like the house, the rental price and the area. However I just wanted some advice. I am going to telephone the letting agent on Monday and be as reasonable as possible. Thier response will determine how I proceed.

I've already picked up from here that they havd a legal responsibility to supply us with an energy performance certificate, but I'd prefer to keep this up my sleeve on my initial call. Assuming similar usage the leak is costing twenty four pounds per month, but I've no way of verifying if it was there before.

My plan was to speak to the letting agent on the phone, then if I get no joy contact the local council to speak to whomever advises on private landlords. Given that the heating system is older than I am ( the manual confirmes 1978) and I am twenty seven I don't think I'm being unreasonable if I extend the following olive branch we intend sattying here for several years and would be prepared to sign an agreement to that effect.

However I do feel any repaid work should be done at my convenenience and, if I'm honest, I feel they need a new heating system. If they are prepared to lose a tenant over this they are just delaying the inevitable.

Are there any other options?

I know withholding rent is not an option, but if they are not holding up thier end of the bargain there must be something I can do to strongarm them...

I could call Transco but they'll just disconnect the meter saying its not safe. Fortunately its summer and we can manage without gas, any input welcome.

Owain_Moneysaver

Do you actually have a gas safety certificate? If you don't, demand one and if it isn't forthcoming go to the HSE.

Back boilers do have a pilot light which runs continuously and can consume a surprising amount of gas. I turn my boiler off when I'm not using it in summer, as I have an electric shower. I would suggest turning the boiler off (extinguishing the pilot light) and seeing if the meter continues to run.

If you do have a safety certificate and it's not the pilot light using gas, then complain to Gas Safe as the gas person may have not tested your installation properly or signed it off even though it's faulty.

davidgmmafan

No I do not have a gas safety certificated and I intend to demand one, however I am going to see how they respond. Now is not an ideal time for me to move if this becomes a fight, however I am preparing for worst case scenario.

I am not familiar at all with back boilers, however as I understand the instructions on this particular model there is a control to turn the heating and/or hot water on. When you slide this along you can hear it kick in (ignite might be a better term). A better way for me to understand this might be to ask what would cause the pilot light to be on? I would consider the boiler turned off presently, but as I've said the meter only stops advancing when I turn the gas supply off. It has used two units on an imperial metre in two days, this is very roughly 64 Kwh.

I don't believe the guy would've signed it off knowing it was faulty, however given the amount of time spent there is a nagging doubt that he was somewhat of a bob the builder type.

poppysarah

Move at your first possible opportunity.

Is he a member of the private landlords association?
Speak to them and find out what that means. It might just mean he's able to make his mark on a bit of paper.
;-/

BaldPlumber

First off, some of the older back boilers have pilot lights. The newer ones don't. Some of the really old fire fronts also have a pilot light and so both of these could have been using gas continuously.

The guy who came to do the gas safety inspections behaviour puzzles me. He is usually there to do the tests, record the results, to notify the tenant of any problems and to contact the gas transporter if necessary. He is not usually there to fix any faults.

Out of interest, did he remove the fire front? as this would have been required to do a complete check on the back boiler.

clutton_2

if you do not have a Gas Cert - then call in Transco - yes they will cut it off.. and then your landlord has to fix it - if he does not .. then to go Environmental Health who will force him to repair it safely - if you want to stay here for years then best get this sorted in the summer rather than wait till winter when you will be most uncomfortable....

your amateur readings of the gas meter are NOT telling you if there is a gas leak.....if you dont have a LGSC you could still have leak.. best to get Transco in - you then have legal data behind you

as a LL i only recently got rid of a 30 year old boiler... some of them were made to last .....

silvercar

If there is a gas leak the £24 a month is the least of your worries.

You need a certificate to know if the appliances are safe. If they are safe and the gas used is serving the pilot lights then there is no obligation on the landlord to spend thousands changing your system to reduce your gas bills.

clutton_2

""The guy who came to do the gas safety inspections behaviour puzzles me. He is usually there to do the tests, record the results, to notify the tenant of any problems and to contact the gas transporter if necessary. He is not usually there to fix any faults."

every CORGI and now GASSAFE registered gas engineer i have ever used in 11 years to do LGSCs has gone in to assess, repair, and fix all boilers so that tenants have continuous heating and hot water... why would this be odd ?

davidgmmafan

Having read the thread again I may have caused some confusion here, there was the gas safety thing done a month or so ago. The guy did remove the front of the fire (so its that sort with a fire in front of the boilder if that's any help). I should have said there is no energy performance certificate.

The gas man showed me initially the pressure was dropping, even though everything was switched off and this is why he cut the supply off and came back later with a part. They don't make parts for this system as its older than I am but he was able to get a part that fit. So now I'm wondering if that's the problem, it doesn't quite fit.

So where do I stand? Is it right that they've broken the law in not providing and EPC as we were new tenants circe Feb this year? Or is it just the law to have on (I understand they've valid of 10 years). My hunch at this stage is they don't have one, because if they applied for one the guy could well say this needs to be replaced like yesterday.

I am going to speak to the letting agent and the council on Monday.

PS Re

"If they are safe and the gas used is serving the pilot lights then there is no obligation on the landlord to spend thousands changing your system to reduce your gas bills."

Surely the pilot light would only be on if the heating or fire was on? I'm genuinly new to this kind of system, so just trying to look at it logically. Can it be right that the only way to stop the heating system consuming gas is to shut the supply off? If so what is the point of the controls?

I would also add there is a mark on the wallpaper either side of the fire, seems a bit of a coincidence. Its not damp as I know what damp looks like, and its not as prominent since I turned the gas off.

BaldPlumber

clutton wrote: »

""The guy who came to do the gas safety inspections behaviour puzzles me. He is usually there to do the tests, record the results, to notify the tenant of any problems and to contact the gas transporter if necessary. He is not usually there to fix any faults."

every CORGI and now GASSAFE registered gas engineer i have ever used in 11 years to do LGSCs has gone in to assess, repair, and fix all boilers so that tenants have continuous heating and hot water... why would this be odd ?

Because a gas safety inspection is simply that, or do you just send people in with blank cheques?

The correct procedure is to inspect, test, report, notify and make safe as necessary.

But why would I need to explain this to a professional landlord?

Colincbayley

BaldPlumber wrote: »

Because a gas safety inspection is simply that, or do you just send people in with blank cheques?

The correct procedure is to inspect, test, report, notify and make safe as necessary.

But why would I need to explain this to a professional landlord?

Sorry, I am with Clutton on this one.
As a professional landlord I would just want the job done there and then. I have a very good Gas Safe engineer who I trust just gets on with it. No quote required.