Plan to change private pension inflation link

Old_Slaphead

StevieJ wrote: »

But you think it is OK to give them a uplift because overseas student fees have gone up

I certainly don't

Old_Slaphead

CLAPTON wrote: »

in which case virtually all spending is discretionary whether it attracts VAT or not

Agreed.

But council tax is discretionary only in certain rather extreme situations ie you become homeless

Old_Slaphead

StevieJ wrote: »

But my simple point is, they are not taken out whether you think they should be or not.

What I think is immaterial in the grand scheme of things:)

I'm expressing an opinion that certain pensioners who benefit from taxpayer largess shouldn't have their taxes subsidised.

StevieJ

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Agreed.

But council tax is discretionary only in certain rather extreme situations ie you become homeless

Are we not told by the Tory faithful that all direct taxes are discretionary i.e. if you increase them to much the rich will find ways not to pay them?

Generali

StevieJ wrote: »

Are we not told by the Tory faithful that all direct taxes are discretionary i.e. if you increase them to much the rich will find ways not to pay them?

If you increase them by enough, the middle classes find ways to stop paying them too. Remember the brain drain?

I'm not sure why this should be seen as contentious. If tax rates are 0% then tax take will be 0%. If tax rates are 100% then tax take will be zero. Between those 2 extremes, taxes are paid. It's pretty clear logically why that should be and it is easy to demonstrate empirically.

What remains is at what level tax take can be maximised or increased if that is what you seek to do. That is IMO somewhere between very hard and impossible to determine.

The way I see it, the poverty trap is just another form of this. Why work for £20,000 when you can not work for £19,000?

Similarly, for the middle classes, why take a promotion and work hard to get there if you'll only see a small increase in pay?

StevieJ

Generali wrote: »

If you increase them by enough, the middle classes find ways to stop paying them too. Remember the brain drain?

I'm not sure why this should be seen as contentious. If tax rates are 0% then tax take will be 0%. If tax rates are 100% then tax take will be zero. Between those 2 extremes, taxes are paid. It's pretty clear logically why that should be and it is easy to demonstrate empirically.

What remains is at what level tax take can be maximised or increased if that is what you seek to do. That is IMO somewhere between very hard and impossible to determine.

I don't find it contentious it is slaphead who is saying VAT is discretionary and direct taxes are not

Generali

StevieJ wrote: »

I don't find it contentious it is slaphead who is saying VAT is discretionary and direct taxes are not

Sorry to misrepresent you, to be clear the point wasn't aimed at you so much as tacked on to the end of your post.

marklv

StevieJ wrote: »

So you don't believe that increases in council tax should be included in the calculation of inflation?

Is that not included in CPI? I thought that it was, along with VAT.

marklv

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Why ? What next - personal tax rates?

Even if they were mortgage rates certainly shouldn't be

Subtle difference here: council tax is an unavoidable expense, while mortgages are not. For pensioners this is especially so.

Generali

marklv wrote: »

Is that not included in CPI? I thought that it was, along with VAT.

Components of the RPI & CPI:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/articles/nojournal/CPI_and_RPI_The_2010_Basket_of_Goods_and_Services.pdf

RPI contains Council Tax (page 25), CPI does not.