Irritable Bowel Syndrome

Arthur22_2

Sorry, just to add - I was interested in the references to Vitamin D as a possible factor in bowel disorders, I haven't come across much research in this area. Do you have any links for more info Ted?

Westywoodpecker

Livinginhope, I think the post from Westywoodpecker just contained a typo, and she/he meant Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) not 'Irritable bowel disease' . The poster is a stoma nurse, so I'm sure knows the difference

Indeed, sorry my mistake

Ted_Hutchinson

finc wrote:

I agree with the aloe vera juice. It worked really well for me and I tried just about everything else on offer without success.

Those who wish to try Aloe Vera may be interested to know that it's half price at Holland and Barrett at the moment. 1000 ml. Liquid Now 50% OFF: £4.49
I still think the fact that there is soRandomised double-blind placebo-controlled trial of aloe vera for irritable bowel syndrome. little support from the research for it's use it's a waste of money but if you are determined to waste your money at least your only wasting 50%.

Ted_Hutchinson

Arthur22 wrote:

I'm not sure why you believe that the pacebo effect is any more pronounced in IBS than in other conditions Ted - do you have references to support that?

The placebo effect in irritable bowel syndrome trials: a meta-analysis.

Determination of placebo effect in irritable bowel syndrome]

I am somewhat concerned that the approach adopted by FLP with regards it's promotion of Aloe Vera for IBS is more like brain washing than anything else.
I'll detail the reasons why I think it's possible that Vitamin d could be at the root of auto immune conditions later. I've been out all day and it's too late to give you a reasoned responce tonight.

sleepless_saver

Ted_Hutchinson wrote:

Lactobacillus and bifidobacterium in irritable bowel syndrome: symptom responses and relationship to cytokine profiles.

This is one of several research papers showing that probiotics do help IBS. It's worth looking out for those that mention IBS Both Lactobacillus salivarius UCC4331 or Bifidobacterium infantis 35624 but the bifidobacterium was clearly more effective.

A very moneysaving thing to do to get these bacteria without buying expensive probiotic drinks is to make and drink kefir. There's a long thread on this on OS board http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=181557&highlight=kefir.
I know several people who find it's helped with IBS type symptoms.

Ted_Hutchinson

sleepless_saver wrote:

A very moneysaving thing to do to get these bacteria without buying expensive probiotic drinks is to make and drink kefir. There's a long thread on this on OS board http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=181557&highlight=kefir.
I know several people who find it's helped with IBS type symptoms.

I'm sure if you contact some of the Kefir crowd they will be happy to post you a starter, bit like a ginger beer plant that keeps growing and needs dividing from time to time.

Another moneysaving strategy for those wanting to benefit from probiotics but who don't like the cost of the little drinks, is to add one of those drinks to your home made yoghurt starter. I do this from time to time (I sometimes find split packs reduced) and I am sure that it grows on in the same way your normal live bio yoghurt does.

Arthur22_2

Thanks for those references Ted, although the conclusion of the first study that "Placebo effects in IBS clinical trials measuring a global outcome are highly variable" doesn't really provide a strong argument for a marked placebo effect in IBS.

However, I don't wish to harp on about this as I completely agree with your main point on this thread, which seems to be that controlled trials are vital for any treatments, and that people who are selling 'cures' often talk baloney. I receive lots of emails from people asking me about the latest 'cure' they have found on the internet, and I am often appalled at what I find. The other day I found one that said something like "Take [our product] now or have surgery later"!!!!! Couldn't believe it...

Aloe vera is one of those things that has a lot of anecdotal evidence in support of it for use with bowel disorders, but not much clinical evidence - and of course the problem with anecdotal evidence is that the people who have used it without success tend to keep quiet (although I can speak up here and say I tried it and it didn't help me).

Just to mention that the IBS Network have a good helplined staffed by nurses if people want some medical advice.

Ted_Hutchinson

Arthur22 wrote:

Sorry, just to add - I was interested in the references to Vitamin D as a possible factor in bowel disorders, I haven't come across much research in this area. Do you have any links for more info Ted?

What I said was "While it's likely there is a lot of undiagnosed CD I doubt your Alternative Therapist is correct in assuming that all IBS is undiagnosed CD. Looking at the symptoms of both conditions I could as easily tell you that vitamin d deficiency symptoms appear a common denominator and as vitamin d researchers are continually moving higher the threshold at which it's possible to detect ill effects arising from low vitamin d status I could argue that all IBS/CD stems from too little sunlight either currently or at some point since conception."
I was trying to make the point to Raffles that any therapist who has a hobby horse about a particular line of treatment or fixated on one likely cause of a condition is likely to be mistaken. Regulars here will know that I have a bit of a hobby horse about Vitamin d and Omega 3 and tend to see the relevance of these factors in many of the threads I respond to. So when I said I "Could" detail reasons why vitamin d may be implicated I wasn't actually saying it was, Simply that I Could argue that it may be.

I don't have IBS myself nor do I know anyone who suffers so it's not a condition I've studied. However this paper Changing face of irritable bowel syndrome has a section on Infection, inflammation, immunity and IBS that rings bells with the role of vitamin d.
You will see mention of a persisting increase in rectal mucosal enteroendocrine cells andthis research shows that vitamin d is essential for the proper functioning of enteroendocrine cells.
T lymphocytes are also associated with IBS and again the cellular presence of the VDR include the immune system's B and T lymphocytes
a direct link between prior exposure to an infectious agent, persisting low-grade inflammation and IBS also implies a role for vitamin d in prevention with it's known role in improving immune function and it's association with enabling a greater uptake of omega 3 both of which are known anti inflammatory agents.

I do appreciate that there is a difference between conjecture and proven research. But given there is still a lack of understanding of IBS it is reasonable to explore all possibilities. To "lump" or to "split" the functional somatic syndromes: can infectious and emotional risk factors differentiate between the onset of chronic fatigue syndrome and irritable bowel syndrome? is interesting as it implies the nature of the infective agent together with your state of mind may influence your chance of developing one or other condition. Again this leads back to the importance of Vitamin d and omega 3, both of which are proven anti-depressant therapeutic agents. If we keep our levels of both as high as possible we are better able to deal with stress and it's impact on inflammation and immune status.

There are so many benefits associated with having a high vitamin d/omega 3 status that it's possible beneficial impact on IBS is somewhat secondary consideration however as we know that Osteomalacia due to vitamin D depletion is a neglected consequence of intestinal malabsorption it seems only common sense to ensure the maximum possible intake of vitamin d through the skin and direct exposure to sunlight.

dbs

A good website for IBS information (based in the USA so some products,meds etc may not be available here)has a forum link about people who take a calcium supplement with added vitamin D.

It works mostly for IBS-D people who get diarrhoea after having their gallbladder removed but other people with IBS-D sometimes get good results aswell.

http://ibsgroup.org/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/72310261/m/479104561

Rest of the website includes information about GERD and anxiety etc worth a good look.

Arthur22_2

The calcium supplement is one I have heard lots of good report of. It's called Caltrate Plus and as dbs says I think is only a USA supplement, but it basically just contains calcium carbonate and vitamin D. Calcium is a mineral which is known to be constipating (and magnesium is known for the opposite effect, hence products such as milk of magnesia as laxatives).