Newly seperated, father says he won't give permission for sons holiday abroad.

GobbledyGook

DX2 wrote: »

How sad are some of these "helpful" posts shakes head.

Are they as "sad" as a man trying to deprive his son of a weeks holiday with his extended family out of spite?

LilacPixie

When I applied for my kids passports I signed the form, I can't even remember if i had to include his details. I have flew with one or both my girls alone and no questions asked. My parent have also flown with the oldest and as far as I know no one batted and eyelid

DX2

GobbledyGook wrote: »

Are they as "sad" as a man trying to deprive his son of a weeks holiday with his extended family out of spite?

Oh I agree that he is being childish, but maybe just maybe he is hurting. Posts going on about abduction, laughing and slamming doors in a person's face are just as bad.
They both have a right to parent this child.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

DX2 wrote: »

Oh I agree that he is being childish, but maybe just maybe he is hurting. Posts going on about abduction, laughing and slamming doors in a person's face are just as bad.
They both have a right to parent this child.

But not to ruin a mother's holiday just because they have split up.

DX2

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

But not to ruin a mother's holiday just because they have split up.

The Op now knows that he really hasn't got a leg to stand on, and he probably realises he was stupid after he said it.

mookiandco

Sorry, but there is alot of incorrect advice here. It is a criminal offence under the Child Abduction Act 1984 to take a child out of the country without the consent of everyone that has parental resposibilty for the child.

He can stop her and in fact it is her that needs to apply for a specific issue order to take the child out of the country if he objects. The 28 day thing only applies if she has a residence order which I dont think she does (ie someone with a residence order can take a child out of the UK for the purposes of a holiday of less than 28 days).

A father with parental responsibility has to be notified if the parent with care is taking the child abroad (whether it be for a holiday or permanently). If he doesnt want her to go and is being spiteful he need only inform the police that she intends to abduct the child or he can go to court and within 24 hours (without notice to her) obtain a prohibited steps order to prevent her taking the child abroad (presumably on the basis that he believes she wont return the child).

Inorder to prevent any of this she should think about taking legal advice and getting a solicitor to write to him regarding the holiday and asking him to sign a consent form. In the event that he refuses she is likely to be advised to apply for a specific issue order (the issue for the court to decide will be whether she may remove the child from the jurisdiction of England and Wales for the purposes of a holiday in X).

He does have a leg to stand on i'm afraid. He has parental responsibilty and therefore his consent is required. So long as she has proof of return (ie return tickets), provides details (address and telephone no.) of where they are staying and shows it is a genuine holiday then there shouldnt be a problem in the Court granting this order.

However, if the holiday is in August, bear in mind that it takes 6- 8 weeks to get legal aid (if eligible) and another month for the matter to be listed and heard by the court. She therefore needs to act now as there is every possibility that the court will not hear the matter and therefore she will not be able to take the child on holiday. If she takes the child without permission (as seems to be suggested by some) then she risks the possibility of being arrested at the airport (if ex goes to the police and alleges child abduction they will release an all ports warning). If she does get away she may be arrested on her return.

Sorry to be the voice of doom and gloom but this is the correct legal information in relation to this scenario. What you chose to do with it is up to you!

DX2

Can I take my child abroad?



This is always a difficult issue. It is sensible to seek the agreement of the other parent before taking a child abroad. Parents should be reasonable about this and provide the other parent with plenty of notice. Remember to always act in the best interests of the child. If the resident parent has a residence order, they are able to take the child abroad for up to a month without the consent of the other parent. If they intend to take the child for longer than a month, they will need written consent of every person with parental responsibility.
Where the parent with whom the child lives does not have a residence order, he or she can take the child on holiday, but should inform the non-resident parent that he or she intends to do so. It is not necessary to obtain the non-resident parent's positive agreement, but the resident parent should carefully consider any reasonable objections, If the non-resident parent wishes to prevent the resident parent taking the child on holiday, he or she will need to apply for a court order.
A non-resident parent who wishes to take their child abroad on a holiday will generally have to negotiate this with the resident parent. If contact is agreed, there is no reason why the child cannot be taken abroad during that time. However, the resident parents often do object and may refuse to allow the child to go. In such a case, the non resident parent will need to seek a court order permitting him or her to take the child away.
The application for a passport must signed by one person with parental responsibility. In the case of unmarried fathers who have obtained parental responsibility through a court order or a parental responsibility agreement, the original order or agreement must be sent with the application to prove the father has parental responsibility.
http://www.childrenslegalcentre.com/Legal+Advice/Child+law/ParentalResponsibility/CanItakemychildabroad

mookiandco

DX2 wrote: »

Can I take my child abroad?



This is always a difficult issue. It is sensible to seek the agreement of the other parent before taking a child abroad. Parents should be reasonable about this and provide the other parent with plenty of notice. Remember to always act in the best interests of the child. If the resident parent has a residence order, they are able to take the child abroad for up to a month without the consent of the other parent. If they intend to take the child for longer than a month, they will need written consent of every person with parental responsibility.
Where the parent with whom the child lives does not have a residence order, he or she can take the child on holiday, but should inform the non-resident parent that he or she intends to do so. It is not necessary to obtain the non-resident parent's positive agreement, but the resident parent should carefully consider any reasonable objections, If the non-resident parent wishes to prevent the resident parent taking the child on holiday, he or she will need to apply for a court order.
A non-resident parent who wishes to take their child abroad on a holiday will generally have to negotiate this with the resident parent. If contact is agreed, there is no reason why the child cannot be taken abroad during that time. However, the resident parents often do object and may refuse to allow the child to go. In such a case, the non resident parent will need to seek a court order permitting him or her to take the child away.
The application for a passport must signed by one person with parental responsibility. In the case of unmarried fathers who have obtained parental responsibility through a court order or a parental responsibility agreement, the original order or agreement must be sent with the application to prove the father has parental responsibility.
http://www.childrenslegalcentre.com/Legal+Advice/Child+law/ParentalResponsibility/CanItakemychildabroad

It is very unfortunate that there is information on the internet that is so incorrect that it could have dire consequences.

'Section 1 of the Child Abduction Act 1984 states that:
(1) ...a person connected with a child under the age of sixteen commits an offence if he takes or sends the child out of the United Kingdom without the appropriate consent.
'Appropriate consent' broadly means permission from everyone who has PR for the child or (where this is refused) leave of the court. Any prosecution under the Act requires the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions. The maximum penalty for a conviction is seven years imprisonment'....

It is a defence under the Child Abduction Act that consent was unreasonably witheld but does anyone want to take the risk that their holiday is scuppered at the last minute by someone obtaining a prohibited step order or informing the police. Sadly, people will say anything if they want to be spiteful and without evidence to the contrary the court will make the order and the police will act on the information they have before them.

A Family solicitor is likely to advise you in the same terms I have and instead of risking your holiday you might be wise to get this advice.

marshmallows

you won't have a problem getting a passport, put his details on the passport form but only one parent with PR needs to sign it

If your daughter doesn't have a residency order issued by the court then technically you need permission from everyone who has PR to take the child out of the country.

If he is being spiteful ask him the reasons he doesnt want his son going away, offer him alternative contact times if he will miss some because of the holiday etc

How spiteful is he? is he likely to call passport offices and accuse your daughter of abduction?

kjmale

I am a family lawyer and reading all these posts I think you are best contacting a local solicitor, most offer free initial advice or go through your CAB. Get information first hand instead of from people that think they know.....there are a couple of posts excluded from this as they do know what they are talking about!