"Punishing" bankrupts

wolfers

I'm trying hard not to be argumentative, but . . .

The point I'm trying to make is not one about trust. The person on the Hull telecoms thread is offering to pay the telecoms company (who have a monopoly where he lives) six months in advance and they still won't take him on as a customer. There is no possibility of loss here.

And if we're going to bring thieves and murderers into this, do utilities suppliers ask if you have a criminal record? If I savagely beat someone with a spiked club, I'd be out of jail in under six years and I'd have no problem getting a mortgage, since lenders don't ask about your criminal past. Yet if I'm a discharged bankrupt I may find it really hard to get a mortgage, however "good" I've been financially since going bankrupt, even six years later.

I never want another credit card again. I'm totally at ease with being refused one if I were to apply for one. But I think it's not justifiable for bankrupts, such as the guy in Hull, to be refused relatively basic/essential services simply because he's bankrupt.

You may say bankrupts pose a higher risk (is there evidence of this?) but I say: if banks are so good at assessing risk, how come we are in the financial mess that we're in now?

MicheH

It's not about being argumentative Wolfers so don't worry, we're having a discussion thats all.

Maybe I have been niave talking about trust and it was probably the wrong phrase to use. Your word 'risk' is better. But I can't be swayed from my point. If a company chooses not to take the risk with me then so be it. I am a bankrupt. Soon I will have been a bankrupt and will always be reminded of it. I cannot moan, I knew the negatives. Paying by direct debits or installements is all 'credit' isn't it. Even with an advance on a persons account doesn't mean they will never run up a bill, our records show we havn't been able to pay. We never know what is going to happen and when. My basic need is is gas and electric. I am in arrears with British Gas still from the high winter usage, will clear it this month.. my point being is I am darn lucky that BR allowed me to become a customer of theirs, I am a bankrupt, budget very well now, learned all my lessons but I still owe a utility £25 (was £75 at one point) British Gas took a risk in allowing me to pay by direct debit as a bankrupt. It was their choice, I am surprised they didn't request a prepayment meter again their choice, their risk. They now have a customer with a diabolical credit rating who is bankrupt owing them money. See what I mean. We all have good intentions, we've learned our lessons but we're still a risk, bankrupt or not, that's life and things happen. Our records show that if 'something' happens we may not pay. Higher risk?

curly04

Wolfers you have missed my point - i am not saying you or anyone is like a criminal

BR have a label - Bankrupt - companies see us as a risk and some companies dont trust us
Criminal have a label- Criminals - we see these people as a risk and some people dont trust them.

debtinfo

Time for my imput

I hope you will see that i have a slightly different perspective, as i have worked in the industry and had conversations with people on all sides.

First things first, all these companies do millions of transactions and have to assess people when they are signing an agreement to agree some type of financial contract with them. As well as the obvious services and payments there are often lots of clauses and reasons why the services and payment amounts could change and so the assessment has to cover all these eventualities and any consequences. To have a qualified person really assess you cost massive amounts of money. Instead what they do is catagorize people, you just happen to be in the current or former bankrupt box, it doesent matter how and why you are there just that you are. Now that implies that you have in the past not been able to repay your debts, again how and why is not important, they cannot go that deep, you are just in that box, that means automatically you are a higher risk, not because of who you personally are, but because the average of your group is a higher risk.

To take another example, young, male drivers.
We all know that they are reckless, likely to crash more often, each on them runs over lots of people every day and that is why they pay hugely more in insurance payments. They are in that box, they are not assessed on who calm and placid they are, what their skills are behind the wheel or what they drove like yesterday when no one was looking. They are automatically in that box where their average risk is higher so they pay more

Please dont feel that you are personally being persecuted just like curly says you need to build up that trust, probably over years and prove that you are above that average and dont desevre to be on their no service list

wolfers

debtinfo wrote: »

To take another example, young, male drivers.

Now *that* is an example I can get behind as it's not judgemental. You have explained things really well and now I feel a lot better

wolfers

curly04 wrote: »

i am not saying you or anyone is like a criminal

No, I know you weren't, but your example -- and, actually, something someone else said that came across as harsh, however unintentionally -- was upsetting to me because I'm trying to be happy and move on and not hate myself for what's happened

Hence I liked debtinfo's example better

curly04

well im not here to upset anyone so if you took offence I am sorry (I work in car insurance and we are not allowed to say we are judgemental about young drivers :rotfl:)
I know what you mean about wanting to move on and be happy

We are both at different stages of our journey - im 7 months in but we will get there as people keep saying to me something good has got to happen soon! - I just can't wait now

wolfers

curly04 wrote: »

well im not here to upset anyone so if you took offence I am sorry

I think it's just an indication of how fragile I am at the moment. There were a few postings on this thread that did really upset me and I felt really quite blue. I even went for a walk to think about it all. Then debtinfo made his analogy with boy racers and I felt much better

I know no-one was intending to upset anyone. Bankruptcy is a very emotional thing, I think. For me that's the hardest part.

curly04

the emotional roller coster - tell me about it, one min I'm ok the next min I'm crying.
People at work think I am mad!

dojoman

I`m sorry but this thread is winding me up, where are the posts on here that are judgemental.