TalkTalk, Tiscali, MAC codes and LLU circuits

Jaystar_2

I signed up to TalkTalk in May and gave them the MAC code they insisted they needed (despite acknowledging that it would have expired before my free broadband go live date). Tiscali provided me with the MAC code without a word of complaint and I thought that the whole process was going to be plain sailing.
Come the end of August and TalkTalk have finally announced that they are ready to transfer my service and need a new MAC code... I've contacted Tiscali and they have told me that in the interim the have switched me from ADSL to a LLU circuit and that they can no longer issue a MAC code because of this change. I will now need to cancel my Tiscali service and wait 10 to 15 days for my line to clear at which point TalkTalk can start setting up my broadband (which will take another 10 to 15 days).
I will therefore be without a service for 20 to 30 days and that's if everything goes according to plan (and how often does that happen?)
I've contacted Ofcom who told me I'll just have to sit it out and that Tiscali are not doing anything wrong. They also say that I have no legitimate complaint against TalkTalk despite their original promise that the transfer would be painless and take no longer than 24 hours.


I just thought that I should post this to warn other MSEers. If you are thinking of switching make sure that you are not on LLU circuit and that your present supplier has no plans to switch you to LLU in the near future... unless you are have some other way of getting online for a month or so.

Madasafish_Customer_Care

Hi Jaystar,

Call Tiscali once more and ask them:

"I've heard that some partial LLU providers, such as yourselves, are trialling MACs. I'd be really disappointed to know that you're not doing the same."

If they don't give you a positive response, ask to speak to a manager, they might know more about it.

I know that other partial LLU providers are doing these because we've been accepted MACs from them! The technology is there!

Good luck!

Kind regards,
Samara

ps. Tiscali have signed the OFCOM code of practice which I believe does not distinguish between LLU and non LLU MACs: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/advice/codes/bbm_cop/. Another question for Tiscali would be; "could you please explain why you've signed the OFCOM voluntary code for supplying MAC's upon request, however you're not able to give me one?"

Old_Gold

What do you expect from Ofcom? The last thing these organisations care about is the public. Complain to your MP, its the only way eventually to make these civil servants do anything and only then we an MP realises its a voting issue.

Jaystar_2

I'm going to follow Samara's advice and challenge them on the grounds of the code of practice. If this gets results then I'll have to consider what to do about the fact that Ofcom fobbed me off so easily (surely they are meant to be more interested in consumers' rights?).

Thank you for you suggestion, Samara, I'll post again once I have Tiscali's response.

Old_Gold

As far as I can see the MAC code allows you to migrate free to any provider. If you cannot get a MAC code then your line expires and your new provider may charge you for a new installation. This would surely breach their contract and by rights they should not switch you to LLU without your consent.
I have raised this same issue with Eclipse who are apparantly doing the same thing but I have been told that they would not switch me without my being informed before. I will wait and see. It is a form of stopping you transferring to another company without penalty.
As this is new, not too many people know about it. So tell as many people as you can so that the issue is brought to a head. Only by us complaining will anything be done.

t-elle

When I phoned BT for the second time to get a MAC, the woman said beware of who you change to; if they are LLU you might have service for a few days, then you could be without for up to 3 weeks while they change you over. I wasn't sure what she meant, she wouldn't explain any further, and our exchange isn't unbundled anyway. I assumed it was to try to change my mind? I will confirm this with whichever provider I finally decide on.

Madasafish_Customer_Care

Hi T-elle,

Historically there have been some confirmed problems with unrolling LLU onto a phone line and there have been instances where consumers have been left without phone services for weeks.

The reason that ISPs want to move to LLU is that in the long-term, LLU should be cheaper to supply than buying and reselling a wholesale BT product (which is what we’re doing) because you don’t have the middleman. However LLU has been fraught with problems which have been pretty thoroughly documented. You may remember last summer the problems that Bulldog were having with their LLU roll out and currently Plusnet and Orange too have faced their own LLU uncertainty. Basically, all ISPs are interested in the possibility of LLU, however no one has really been able to pull it off successfully yet without putting a percentage of their customers through major service problems. Talk Talk are relying on LLU for their 'free' deal to be financially possible and it will be interesting to see if they are able to overcome problems that other ISPs have faced.

Kind regards,
Samara

Jaystar_2

Right, had to interrupt my crusade for a few days as Talk Talk put a bar on my phone(!)... they've been supplying my landline for three months now and each month they fail to collect my direct debit, I ring them to ask why, they tell me that everything is in order and that the money will be collected in a few days and then they cut my phone off! I'd be laughing if I weren't so busy tearing my hair out.

But, that's a whole different issue really. Now that my phone is working again I have spent two days shuttling backward and forward between Tiscali and Ofcom and trying to sort out my broadband migration to Talk Talk (judging by how they are screwing up my landline I wish that I could call the whole thing off but, of course, I signed that 18 month contract, didn't I?)

Tiscali have refused to budge despite numerous calls and repeatedly getting transferred from manager to manager. They claim that they absolutely cannot issue a MAC code on an LLU circuit. They know that some partial LLU providers are trialling LLU migrations but that they are not one of them and that as far as their technology is concerned it is simply not possible. Ofcom admits that it doesn't know a great deal about LLU circuits and how they effect migration as this is a fairly new area. One guy I spoke to at Ofcom said that he was sure that a manual MAC code could be generated on an LLU but that this was a lot of trouble for the provider concerned, Tiscali simply denied that such a thing even existed.
Ofcom are apparently working with BT to produce a new Broadband Migration Review which will be published in two months, it will detail the difficulties facing LLU customers who wish to migrate and will hopefully place pressure on the industry to resolve these issues.
It seems as though I have just chosen the very worst time to try to move. I think that what I will probably do is stay with Tiscali until it becomes easier to leave without disrupting my service. Ofcom has suggested that I may have a case for complaint against Talk Talk as when I signed up to them they assured me that the migration would involve minimum disruption. I probably can't get out of my contract as it's specifically for the landline and the broadband was only a free offer thrown in on top but I will contact them anyway and see what they say. Perhaps I should ask for compensation of some sort (I made the decision to move to Talk Talk on financial grounds assuming that I would be saving money by having free broadband, instead I am spending more on my phone bills and am still having to pay to get broadband from my original supplier).

Ofcom has given me a freephone numbers to call for high level Talk Talk complaints (0800 0495 743)... I’ll contact them now and perhaps I'll have a go at them about the fact that they keep cutting off my phone too.

valli2

They can issue LLU MACs cos i recently migrated with one from the farce that is Orange to IDNet it worked ok with no downtime took longer than the usual MACs 48 hrs for Orange with pressure to issue it and 12 days for IDNet and BT to complete it.
Regards

Steve

twhitehead

I got a letter from Tiscali on 1 August saying they were making improvements to their service on 2 August. I might lose broadband for a couple of hours.
On 2 August I lost thephone line, but broadband stayed. Then on 5 August broadband failed. Of course Tiscali blames BT for everything, BT blames Tiscali. After some 15 calls to Tiscali (different 0870 numbers) lasting over three hours I gave up and cancelled my broadband on 24 August.
I got BT line back on 15 August, when the engineer came out he was sensible and told me Tiscali had put 2000 lines into our local exchange as the unbundle upgrade and suceeded in 99.9% of the cases. Just me and one other poor customer had problems.
Now I still do not have broadband, Tiscali says BT will take the tag off the line within 10 to 15 days. But of course, I have already had words with BT who say it is not a tag problem but an LLU problem which Tiscali have got to sort out.
WHAT A MESS.
ANY SUGGESTIONS????
Incidentally, I am using a college computer to which I can get access once a week so I cannot acknowledge any helpful suggestions.
:mad:

valli2

Hi
Try filling out an online complaint form here ISPA i just checked Tiscali are members.

Good Luck

Steve