MSE News: Minimum wage to rise by 2.2%

Captain_Moonshine

Some of the hardest working members of our society are those in minimum wage jobs. I would suggest that the vast majority of them are not there through choice as Judas seems to suggest, and they are not there because of lack of skills or knowledge either. They are often there because of redundancy or circumstances completely beyond their control, such as companies going bankrupt due to incompetent management. Not wishing to become part of the benefits culture, they take whatever job they can get, and usually work extremely hard doing it too. Often much harder than higher paid members of staff.

The minimum wage is an absolute insult to hard working people. It started off at a ridiculously low level, and has failed miserably to keep up with the ever-increasing cost of living. I think it should be doubled.

Googlewhacker

Person_one wrote: »

I wasn't referring just to you, but your post was the most succinct so I used it.

Back to the E grade student, by talking about 'want' you are missing my point. Some people are lucky enough to be of reasonable or high intelligence, some aren't and there isn't a great deal they can do to change it.

If someone works as hard as they possibly can and tries their level best, wants an A grade more than anything but can still only achieve an E, how are they ever going to be an accountant?

Yes there are people like the ones you mention who stay on NMW when they might be able to do better but how do you propose we differentiate? What should their wage be? They're still doing the same valuable work. There's no law that says everybody must do the highest paying job they are capable of but there is a law that says everybody must be paid enough to cover the basic cost of existing.

If someone is achieving an E then if they had the time to improve I would say they could become an accountant, it may take alot longer to sink in but they would get there eventually. I understand what you are saying but I would also say because somone is rubbish at Maths/ Accountancy etc then they maybe good at a trade. IMO most of the people who work NMW are not rubbish at everything and could improve themselves if they so wished

If NMW is what is required to live on then why are JSA benefits etc not NMW? Because NMW is not required to just live on, it is required to provide people with the opportunity of some luxuries as well as living (and I am not saying this is a bad thing, just pointing it out)

If someone stays on NMW because of choice then that is upto them, if they wish to improve then they need to apply for better jobs, they need to look at self improvement.

Captain_Moonshine

dodger1 wrote: »

There will be far less people taking a Chemistry degree than people taking a "more useful degree" simply because of job possibilities. People taking degees where jobs are more plentiful have exactly the same problem as moromir because far more people take those degrees. The problem is far too many people take degrees. I believe the previous governments target was 50% of school leavers going on to university which is patently rediculous. Companies do not need 50% of their employees to have degrees.

Unfortunately, because of the growing level of unemployment in recent years, employers are asking for degrees to do jobs that an averagely intelligent 16 year old could do. Qualifications are being used simply as a means of reducing the number of applicants for jobs. Obviously this does not apply in all cases. I am sure nobody would suggest that a degree was not necessary to become a doctor for instance, but there are many cases where at one time a couple of "O Levels" would have got you the job, but now you need a degree. The job hasn't changed, only the qualifications needed.

For the past 40+ years we have got into a "dog chasing it's tail" situation. Employers are demanding more and more qualifications to do even menial jobs, so schools, colleges and universities churn out more highly qualified students, and so employers up their requirements yet again. And so on ad-infinitum. How long will it be before a degree is necessary to become a road-sweeper?

Captain_Moonshine

Googlewhacker wrote: »

If NMW is what is required to live on then why are JSA benefits etc not NMW? Because NMW is not required to just live on, it is required to provide people with the opportunity of some luxuries as well as living.

Luxuries on NMW??? What planet are you on? NMW is nowhere near enough to even exist on without a partner earning a decent wage as well.

The only reason JSA is not as high as NMW is because if it were there would be an outcry. People would say "why should someone who is not working get as much as someone who is?" Anyway benefit claimants often end up with more because of the stupidity of the current system. Why do we often hear that people cannot afford to come off benefits and take a minimum wage job? It's not that benefits are too high it's that NMW is way too low.

Googlewhacker

Captain_Moonshine wrote: »

Luxuries on NMW??? What planet are you on? NMW is nowhere near enough to even exist on without a partner earning a decent wage as well.

The only reason JSA is not as high as NMW is because if it were there would be an outcry. People would say "why should someone who is not working get as much as someone who is?" Anyway benefit claimants often end up with more because of the stupidity of the current system. Why do we often hear that people cannot afford to come off benefits and take a minimum wage job? It's not that benefits are too high it's that NMW is way too low.

Beer is a luxury, going to the pub is a luxury, it is not a neccessity to live and most people on NMW will be purchasing this product.

I disagree with NMW increasing by double, if you did this then everything would just cost more and in the end we would be in the same position with you shouting for double the NMW and eventually we will end up like Zimbabwe where a million quid is worthless.

Captain_Moonshine

Googlewhacker wrote: »

....the simple answer then to increase their wage is to apply for better jobs.

So these "better jobs" are all out there then, waiting for someone to apply for them? If only...

And if the person on NMW did get a better job, who would do the job that person left behind? And on what wage?

NMW became necessary when unemployment started to rise. Previously, employers had to keep increasing the wages of the less popular jobs because if they didn't, they simply would not get anyone to do them.

Captain_Moonshine

Googlewhacker wrote: »

Beer is a luxury, going to the pub is a luxury, it is not a neccessity to live and most people on NMW will be purchasing this product.

I disagree with NMW increasing by double, if you did this then everything would just cost more and in the end we would be in the same position with you shouting for double the NMW and eventually we will end up like Zimbabwe where a million quid is worthless.

I quite agree that going to the pub is a luxury, but I would suggest that those on NMW who do so are sharing their lives with someone who earns real money. I doubt whether there are many whose only income is NMW who could afford to go to the pub unless they worked a massive number of hours, or had two jobs.

My wife works part-time on NMW, and we can't afford to go to the pub more than a couple of times a year on our birthdays, even with our combined earnings.

A better idea than doubling the minimum wage would be to link the wages/salaries of the highest and lowest paid within the same company. The difference at present is often staggering and wholly unjustified. The worst offenders are the big multi-nationals who have some people earning £millions a year, and others on NMW. That in my opinion is absolutely disgusting, as I feel that nobody should be paid less than one fifth of the highest paid within any company. I work for a small company on low wages, but above NMW, and I doubt whether my boss earns double what I do. Larger companies should follow suit.

ariarnia

erm... I didn't mean anything by it - just that money in always seems to equal money out if you're earning £5.80, £5.93 or £9 an hour (my range of saleries to date) and I figure it'd be the same if it were £90 an hour - people live to their means.

AdamB

Anyone know how this affects the accomodation offset? Unless Im being blind, I couldnt find anything on direct.gov.

Googlewhacker

Captain_Moonshine wrote: »

A better idea than doubling the minimum wage would be to link the wages/salaries of the highest and lowest paid within the same company. The difference at present is often staggering and wholly unjustified. The worst offenders are the big multi-nationals who have some people earning £millions a year, and others on NMW. That in my opinion is absolutely disgusting, as I feel that nobody should be paid less than one fifth of the highest paid within any company. I work for a small company on low wages, but above NMW, and I doubt whether my boss earns double what I do. Larger companies should follow suit.

The problem is then what is the incentive for entrepreneurs? They cannot earn the decent money in this country so why stay here?

Your idea is in theory good but in practise flawed. Also those at the top tend to have to make the bigger decisions than those at the bottom so where would the incentive be to be at the top if you are not earning the money you can now?