Dental Treatment Abroad

saz9961

Undisputedtruth wrote:

Poor thing, trying to put words into my again with your tired Ozone argument. Even worse is your unoriginal penny comment! If you had enough esteem in your ability then you wouldn't be misrepresenting my words.

Anyway, moving on the dentist abroad thread, I believe there is a website which gives recommendation on dentists in Europe. Hopefully this will take the uncertainty out of choosing a dentist without the bickering of a certain dentist on this thread who is obviously looking after his self interest.

Undisputedtruth

Do you have a link; the ones I have seen seem to be nothing more than biased advertising. Any links to forums where there are German and Austrian users? There seems to be little feedback from UK users.

Toothsmith

saz9961 wrote:

I'm not so naive that this means no more dentistry; please give me more credit than that :mad:

I did! That's why I said 'A lot of people' If I'd have meant you, I would have said you!

saz9961 wrote:

But I am shocked that you suggest that you consider the level of professionalism of dentistry in the UK is the same as the "trades". I think we have all heard of cowboy plumbers.....

I said :-

Toothsmith wrote:

And there are unaccredited organisations for many trades & professions in many countries. UK dentistry is by no means alone in that one!!

Which doesn't really mean what you are suggesting there, does it?

saz9961 wrote:

How do YOU assess the competancy of a new dentist. Let him carry out a couple of grand worth of work before deciding (somehow) he's any good?

This is indeed a tricky one.

I have described what I consider the best way to find a decent dentist in several previous posts.

1. Go by recommendation.

2. Visit the practice before booking an appointment. Ask questions - cross infection control, prices, preventative philosophy. Get a feel for how relaxed or rushed the place is. Do the prices reflect the time spent with the patients? A decent practice will be happy to answer questions and even show you round.

3. If you do the first bits, things should be fine, but when it comes time for the initial appointment, make sure a full explaination of all the treatment is given, with alternatives if necessary. It is rare that only one pathway is correct. If you can't afford a particular option straight away, see if something can be done to 'put you on' until you can afford it. A costed estimate including alternatives should also be given to you.

Bear in mind though that it is perfectly possible for a technically bad dentist to have exellent communication skills, and vice versa! So it's still a bit of a gamble. Gut feeling is often reliable though.

For you SAZ, I think a 17 year relationship with what sounds to me like a very good dentist is worth much much more than a few quid saved by jumping into the unknown. If you've been going to this guy for that long and still don't really trust him, then something is wrong somewhere!

The above suggestions for finding a new dentist would apply wherever in the world you decide to go next though.

Hope it's helpful.

Toothsmith

saz9961 wrote:

He had no problem taking over from my previous dentist; you seem to suggest one dentist is incapable of maintaining the results of another's "work". I don't buy that.

Sorry, just spotted this bit.

No - I didn't really mean that.

Patients with quite straight forward treatment needs should really have no problems.

The sort of person who appears in these 'advertorials' though are generally talking about several thousand pounds worth of complex treatment.

This needs a lot more care and attention. If they are prepared to go back to the original dentist to have it looked after, even when that becomes uneconomic, then that is fine. Alternatively, they could find a good dentist in this country who would understand what is going on and get it looked after there. Although this would also committ them to spending more on their teeth than they ever had before.

The thing that disturbs me about the sort of people featured in these adverts is that they seem to fit the pattern of someone who has neglected their teeth for years, decided to have them fixed in the best possible way, got some huge quote from the UK, and found a cheaper place abroad.

There is no mention of having to change behaviour in order to look after this work. It is presented like a quick fix. There are people to whom this will appeal, and they will go into it without any further research, and they will be worse off because of it.

For people who really can't be bothered with dentists, a plastic denture is the best treatment. This can be done for much less than £30 000 at any UK dentist, and needs very little committment to further care.

People like you SAZ who use their brain and do the work and realise the implications may well get away with it.

Personally, I would prefer to have it done closer to home if I needed such work doing. As I've said before though, it's everyone's own choice.

candyman67

Last year I went to Hungary, firstly for pleasure, but with the idea of going to the dentist tagged on.
Due to the fact that, other than an emergency extraction, I'd not seen a dentist for about 10 years, I expected a lot of work needed. So I booked in for a check up first.

After a good polish, and a chat about the general work required, I checked their pricing and decided to go for a bit of cosmetic work along with the necessary.
I had a molar missing (that was the extraction)
A rotten stump where the crown went rotten around the screw and fell off (NHS).
I wanted my metal fillings replaced with that white stuff. (Too many sweets as a kid)
And generally a tidy up.

So, I had................................At conversion rate at that time

Panoramic Xray.....................................£12.78
Xray...................................................£4.30
Metal ceramic crowns 9 pieces................£572.50
Anesthetics 10 ampules.........................£17.37
Fillings MOD (replaced metal with white)....£251.81
Radix extraction (Remove a rotten stump).£21.39
Tooth cleaning, inc polish.......................£26.95
Temporary crowns................................£91.25
Filling occlusodist...(what was that?)........£36.67

A total of £1035.02
The standard was great. Professionalism fantastic, and I made the booking from England by phone without any introduction.

This was done over 3 occasions, by my choice. I wanted to visit the country a few times, so I spaced it out, and I am more than happy with the result. It was pay by cash, but credit cards are still a new concept over there. A full receipt, in English was given.

Yes it is a bit of a trek over there, but the work here would have cost at least £2500.
The flights were £80 with BA. Even cheaper because of airmiles.
The saving fully paid for my holidays there, and in fact I'm looking at going back out to have my eyes done. Obviously at an eye clinic!!!! Their price for the best treatment, Ultra-lasek, is the same price as the most basic treatment here.

Would I recommend family and friends to go? Too damn right I would.

I have the dentist details if anyone wants them

Undisputedtruth

saz9961 wrote:

Actually, I am perfectly realistic in my expectations. I have 3 areas of work that need attanding to:
1. A missing upper premolar. Recently extracted. Teeth either side are prefectly sound. Estimated cost here: £2300-2800. An implant I presume is a fairly standard technique; the parts/systems used are one of about half a dozen different brands.

Would you believe that the cost of making a Titanium implant is in the region of £7 to £10 but the manufacturers
sells them to Dentist for around £300. Then the Dentists charge for the cost of treatment, implants, crowns and x-rays for £2500. A huge mark up by anyone standards.

Undisputedtruth

Toothsmith

candyman67 wrote:

Last year I went to Hungary, firstly for pleasure, but with the idea of going to the dentist tagged on........................................................

More travel agents methinks :mad:

Toothsmith

Undisputedtruth wrote:

Would you believe that the cost of making a Titanium implant is in the region of £7 to £10 but the manufacturers
sells them to Dentist for around £300. Then the Dentists charge for the cost of treatment, implants, crowns and x-rays for £2500. A huge mark up by anyone standards.

Undisputedtruth

Are you aware of the costs involved in becoming proficient in placing them UDB?

Do you realise the surgeons who do become proficient in bone grafting and techniques such as sinus lifts?

I'm sure you are far to informed to believe any old Thomas Richard or Henry can do it.

How much do you think an ordinary dentist like me would have to shell out before feeling confident enough to drill a bit of titanium into someones skull?

The costs are the same for the Eastern Bloc dentists, it's just their running costs are so much lower that they can recoup the costs of training more easily.


EDIT - just noticed, you quoted the cost price of just the implant, but the full price of implant + crown.

Just the surgery bit to have the implant put in is about £1200.

BTW do you know the cost of a breast shaped bag of saline by any chance? I bet there's a huge profit in that too!

candyman67

Toothsmith - Would you be so kind as to offer your email address, then I could forward you a copy of the receipt. It is dated 24 May 2005. Hardly a travel agent service!

Having just joined here, I'm not aware of anybody's credentials, nor am I in a position to cast dispersions against another. However it also means that you are not in a position to judge me.

Just as a quick judgement, I assume from your name that you are representive of the UK denstistry. Perhaps that is why you wish to shut down the concept of people travelling for what is ultimately a better service.
Even if the service is to at least the same standard, which I fully believe it is, the price is dramatically less. So therefore the service is better.

For the information of all, the dentist I visited is called Profident. Their address is Fogaszati Centrum, 1075 Budapest, Karoly Krt. 1
Phone number 0036 1268 1097.

Now....
You've got the dentist details.
I've told you who offers a good flight to get you there.
I've told you how to get that flight cheaper,
And I've neither asked for, nor require any payment of any description.
How the hell does that make me a travel agent?
If every newbie is greeted with that attitude, it's surprising this site still exists!

Screw you Toothsmith!

Toothsmith

Just such a coincidence that you appear at a time when this sort of thing is being heavily marketed in this country, and at least 2 other spams have appeard on this site.

I'm sure we will all be enriched with your eloquance in the months to come.

Welcome!

candyman67

"Just such a coincidence that you appear at a time when this sort of thing is being heavily marketed in this country, and at least 2 other spams have appeard on this site."

Heavy marketing at 2105hrs on a Thursday?
This has been marketed for a while. Proof of which is the fact that I was easily able to obtain the necessary info to make the decision over a year ago.
Are we to assume that as and when I get my eyes successfully done that the offering of my relevant experience will again be seen as nothing but a mere marketing ploy? But if it was to go wrong then that's OK?

I'm sure there are several members of the UK dentistry who read, and hopefully subscribe to this site, and reviewing a few of your posts, I assume (what the heck, it seems to be the thing to do!) that you are a full member of said profession. Should that be the case, then I take my hat off to you. But it merely makes you a dentist, not judge and jury.

If you and your associates were to dismiss, on a regular basis, the notion of travelling to the distant shores for treatments would that not be perceived by others as being a case of sour grapes? It would seem not, but however 3 cases offered in defense of foreign treatment is somehow seen as a collusion against the UK industry. If the other 2 were obvious spam, then they should have been dismissed without thought.

candyman67 on this site = "A Very Nice Man" on SayNoTo0870
Just so you can check my validity.

My eloquance can go from the gutter to the Hilton, dependant upon the communication.

And whenever I'm in the wrong, I have the appropriate dangly bits to be able to hold my hand up and apologise.

I don't see your hand.