Dental Treatment Abroad

Undisputedtruth

FYI

http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=105&ArticleID=1392110

Undisputedtruth

Toothsmith

Undisputedtruth wrote:

FYI

http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=105&ArticleID=1392110

Undisputedtruth

Another advert for a holiday company!

iwin_r

Hi, this is my first thread.We have been to Budapest twice with a further trip end of May.
1.Kreative Dental were excellent and I had extensive work. All my teeth are porcelain/metal crowned with an upper denture (unavoidable in my case bone density not suitable for implants) which clips on (never option in UK)also a lower 2 tooth denture which clips in and is released by a gold key in the side of the denture(never seen before they only do 1/2 a year in Kreative)
2.Antibiotics are given to all patients as part of the package. Since the hotel is less than 5 mins walk from the clinc any probs are seen quickly.
3.My husband had 3 metal posts put in in January and had stitches removed by our local dentist who is happy to maintain our dental work. He also approved of our going, we consulted him first.His completed costs will be similar to mine £5k+ this includes a bridge.He has had no problems. Our dentist says this is top quality work and he highly approved.
4. All work is fully guarranteed. A uk based dentist is available to lease with at any time. We did not pay by credit card since 3% discount is offered and we took it.Paid for the trip.
5. Finally our experience is that these are professionals who work to a higher standar than any dentist I have been to in the Uk ,since I cant afford a Harley Street clinician I cant compare those.
6.My estimate for work in the Uk was around £24.000.00 It cost me £5.500.00 (completed)in Budapest. Plus we had a good stay enjoying the beautiful cities of Buda and pest. If only we had a transport system like theirs. Incidently a free bus,train,tram pass is given for your stay. A taxi collects you and returns you to airport and the hotel while basic is ok is also subsidised by the clinic.
7.Whilst there all we met were very happy with dental proceedures.If you dont like the Amedaus Hotel you can stay elsewhere at your own cost.The menu caters for dental patients.
Hope all this helps do look at https://www.kreativedent.co.uk its an informative site.Oh we are pensioners.I have a smile to envy now

saz9961 wrote:

After being landed with a whopping £6500 estimate from my (provincial) dentist for a pre-molar implant, a crown and some restorative work on worn molars (using the Dahl technique),, I've really got to look for alternatives. I know dentistry abroad is a fairly popular subject on this board, but hopefully I'll have some questions that haven't been covered before.

1. One concern is through a dentist making a hash of things, and an infection resulting. I've no reason to think that a Hungarian dentist is any more competant than my UK dentist (I read a particularly galling post on a Irish message board noting how bad UK dentists were). I'm a microbiologist by profession, and understand the reasons why any dental surgery is usually followed up by a prophylactic course of antibiotics. What else could go wrong that would be difficult to fix here?
2. Post-operative care; putting in an implant means the gum is stitched/sutured over after the metal post is put into the jaw bone, to allow osso-integration. Somehow.somewhere, the sutures need to be removed; anyone had any problems in a UK dentist carrying out this procedure?
3. My UK dentist has naturally warned me away from going overseas; he cites the lack of insurance and whether guaranteees would be honoured or not. As far as I can make out, Hungarian Law requires all dentists to carry liability insurance, so that appears to be no problem, but on the other aspect I'm not clear about. Those that I have contacted, such as the "British Hungarian Dentist Association" have assured me if a particular dentist left their group, another would be appointed. But I'm not sure what consumer rights I will have. Can I refer to English Common Law, or Hungarian law, or something other. If I use good ol' Barclaycard to pay for it, if there was a non-mdeical compliocation, I could leave it to them to sort out the mess?
4. During my researches, I have come across the "British Academy of Aesthetic Dentistry" and the "Association of Dental Implantology", both of which list Hungarian members. Are these truely professional bodies, and does membership of them actually mean anything?
http://www.adi.org.uk/
http://www.baad.org.uk/

Toothsmith

iwin_r wrote:

3.My husband had 3 metal posts put in in January and had stitches removed by our local dentist who is happy to maintain our dental work. He also approved of our going, we consulted him first.

This has the feel of another advert!

In this country, a dentist can be held liable and sued if a person he recommends to carry out some work on referal causes problems.

In 'approving' your trip, your dentist was taking a huge risk. Unless he had personal knowledge of the surgeon who would carry out the proceedures.

If you or anyone else wants to do this, then that is your choice and your money.

Nothing goes 100% right 100% of the time though, and Budapest is a long way to go if things ever go seriously wrong.

BTW - your link doesn't work.

I have found the site by doing a search, and your address looks OK, but I can't get it to link either!

saz9961

Toothsmith wrote:

I have made comment on other threads.

Those organisations are just glorified, if rather specialized travel agents. They run it as a business to make themselves a living. They will be on a %age of whatever you pay.

Dentists in this country and all countries are also running businesses. We too have to make a profit.

The reason it's dearer in this country than Poland/Hungary is because costs are higher.

We're cheaper than Germany, Ireland, USA, Canada.......

Your tooth has been fine for 10 years, but, as your dentist says, dead teeth are more brittle. You would be cross if it broke and needed extracting, and he said, "Oh dear - we could have saved that if we'd crowned it last year!"

If you trust a travel agent and an unknown dentist more than your own (Regular?) dentist then go for it.

Hopefully nothing will go wrong, and you won't be forced to fly to Warsaw with a face the size of a football.

Well, I suppose people have differing perceptions of dental competance. The popular perception for instance on Irish bulletin boards is that UK dentists are not as well trained as their Irish counterparts. Maybe there is a little bias there.

What I am annoyed with is my present dentist noticed molar wear 10 years ago, when I was a NHS patient with him, and took a mould to track changes. Mysteriously, he has now lost the casting. I have had 2 casts taken in the last year, being charged for them now I am private(same dentist). One of his (older, much more experienced) colleagues wasn't too concerned by the wear, thinking it was historic, and just needed monitoring. Of course, two Professionals will disagree.

And at my last exam, this dentist didn't mention my clearly filled lower premolar. I think I saw the "£" symbols light up when I kind of agreed to get an implant done. Yep, the tooth might break, but it could of broken last year as well; no mention of a restorative op then....

I'm a bit suspect of posts on forum like this of glowing recommendations from newly registered users; sounds a bit like a plant. Apologies if you are not! But Vitaleurope do now hold London consultations; its only going to cost £40 to get a second opinion, so little risk at that stage. Just hope it doesn't turn into a timeshare type hardsell. Still, if it did, I'd be the first to gripe publically about it.

Professionally, British Dentistry sounds in a bit of a mess, if there are unaccredited organisations floating about.

This article seems to be a more sober assessment of Hungarian dentistry:
http://www.budapesttimes.hu/index.php?art=747

Put this article through Google Translate:
http://www.budapesttimes.hu/index.php?art=747

It got me thinking; German and Austrian health Insurers are routinely paying for their clients to get Dental work done in Hungary (and other places). If the standard of work was low, these insurers would surely be facing extra rectification costs, and would quite quickly stamp on substandard practices (ie. not pay for work they would approve of).

I'm well aware that labour costs will dictate a portion of the costs, but clearly, dental labour costs in this country are staggering; the cost of materials themselves don't really vary from country to country (gold is gold, after all). UK dentists, in my experience, are more expensive than US counterparts for routine work. I had a tooth attended to in the US. Cost was £40 for a large filling, £20 for an x-ray. Standard of care was excellent; the dentist didn't use an injection to numb the gum, preferring a codeine (or similar) wad), which did just fine.

As for travelling to Budepest; right now I face a 4 hour round trip to see my dentist. If I had a problem, I know he can't get to see me immediately; and would suggest Nurofen for a couple of weeks until an appointment could be made. So I don't have access on demand here either.

Toothsmith

I think you just need to find a dentist you can trust - in any country you fancy!

My concern is always continuity of care. People tend to get the worst deal out of dentistry whan they chop & change dentists regularly for one reason or another.

Everybody is different. They have different habits, different diets and things that work well on one person can go terribly wrong on another person.

It takes a while, but given a period of time, a dentist will get to know what works well for one person,and what doesn't work at all. then, that person will be well cared for, and happy with their dentist.

My concern over going abroad for treatment is nothing to do with 'inferior' or 'superior' techniques. It is continuity of care.

A lot of people reading the adverts for foreign clinics will come away with the impression that if they spent a whole load of money on their teeth (which would be a lot less than if the same thing were done in this country) they will never have a dental problem again. Or it will be many years until they do, and then another trip will sort it out again.

This is not true.

Wherever you go, and whatever you have done, you will need regular maintenance. This maintenance will be best done where the work was done.

So, a trip out there now to get £35000 worth of dental work done for £10000 including travel looks brilliant.

Spending £350 to get £75 worth of maintenance twice a year doesn't.

But of course you could get that done in this country, but that would mean chopping & changing.


And there are unaccredited organisations for many trades & professions in many countries. UK dentistry is by no means alone in that one!!

Undisputedtruth

Toothsmith wrote:

Another advert for a holiday company!

Indeed, for the cost of treatment in the UK you can take a holiday, have high quality treatment and still save money.

Has the penny dropped yet Toothsmith?

Undisputedtruth

Toothsmith

At least you now accept a dentist can be 'High Quality' without resorting to unproven Ozone treatments.

A penny must have dropped there

One more and you'll be a full shilling.

Undisputedtruth

Toothsmith wrote:

At least you now accept a dentist can be 'High Quality' without resorting to unproven Ozone treatments.

A penny must have dropped there

One more and you'll be a full shilling.

Poor thing, trying to put words into my again with your tired Ozone argument. Even worse is your unoriginal penny comment! If you had enough esteem in your ability then you wouldn't be misrepresenting my words.

Anyway, moving on the dentist abroad thread, I believe there is a website which gives recommendation on dentists in Europe. Hopefully this will take the uncertainty out of choosing a dentist without the bickering of a certain dentist on this thread who is obviously looking after his self interest.

Undisputedtruth

saz9961

Toothsmith wrote:

I think you just need to find a dentist you can trust - in any country you fancy!

My concern is always continuity of care. People tend to get the worst deal out of dentistry whan they chop & change dentists regularly for one reason or another.

Everybody is different. They have different habits, different diets and things that work well on one person can go terribly wrong on another person.

It takes a while, but given a period of time, a dentist will get to know what works well for one person,and what doesn't work at all. then, that person will be well cared for, and happy with their dentist.

My concern over going abroad for treatment is nothing to do with 'inferior' or 'superior' techniques. It is continuity of care.

A lot of people reading the adverts for foreign clinics will come away with the impression that if they spent a whole load of money on their teeth (which would be a lot less than if the same thing were done in this country) they will never have a dental problem again. Or it will be many years until they do, and then another trip will sort it out again.

This is not true.

Wherever you go, and whatever you have done, you will need regular maintenance. This maintenance will be best done where the work was done.

So, a trip out there now to get £35000 worth of dental work done for £10000 including travel looks brilliant.

Spending £350 to get £75 worth of maintenance twice a year doesn't.

But of course you could get that done in this country, but that would mean chopping & changing.


And there are unaccredited organisations for many trades & professions in many countries. UK dentistry is by no means alone in that one!!

I appreciate the angle you are coming from. As I indicated, I have been with the same dentist over 10 years now (actually cracking on for 17 years on and off, with interim periods seeing NHS dentists in other parts of the country, and dentists in the US). He had no problem taking over from my previous dentist; you seem to suggest one dentist is incapable of maintaining the results of another's "work". I don't buy that.

Actually, I am perfectly realistic in my expectations. I have 3 areas of work that need attanding to:
1. A missing upper premolar. Recently extracted. Teeth either side are prefectly sound. Estimated cost here: £2300-2800. An implant I presume is a fairly standard technique; the parts/systems used are one of about half a dozen different brands.
2. A lower premolar crown; I don't believe this needs to be urgently seen to.
3. Worn upper and lower premolars. The dentist wants to use the Dahl technique to build up the tooth surface, and restore the teeth (6 teeth affected). Now this I imagine is far less straightforward, and would require frequent monitoring by the dentist. Cost is £160 for the initial white fillings, then £500 per adhesive gold filling.

Basically, there is no way I am going to spend £6500+ on my teeth right now.

I'm not so naive that this means no more dentistry; please give me more credit than that :mad:

Your suggestion that work and maintenance on teeth should be kept to one dentist is fair enough. But I am shocked that you suggest that you consider the level of professionalism of dentistry in the UK is the same as the "trades". I think we have all heard of cowboy plumbers.....

How do YOU assess the competancy of a new dentist. Let him carry out a couple of grand worth of work before deciding (somehow) he's any good?