Unions in La La Land?

ILW

wageslave wrote: »

I can't.

Elucidate.

That's a lie. The pendulum swings and for the past few years it has been swinging in favour of middle class Daily Mail readers. I think I read somewhere today that 35% of all benefits are paid to those of above average income. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.

Workers rights have been, and are, being continually eroded.

I can't see that changing any time soon

And whos great idea was that then?

ILW

wageslave wrote: »

There's the real problem.

It is no longer seen as shameful to cadge of the state irregardless of your income. How many people on this forum are claiming benefits they don't need? They may well be entitled to them but do they need them? Cast out the mote in your own eye and all that tosh.

But woe betide the poor minimum wage worker who does an Oliver and asks for tuppence more

I have never claimed any sort of benefit in my life, but when you hear of some that make it a lifestyle choice to live off others efforts, you can start wondering whether you should just join in and get everything you can.

wageslave

lostinrates wrote: »

Need is a funny thing. On ''normalish'' incomes need seems to be able to grow quite quite quickly to absorb payrises etc. In an atmosphere of entitlement then it seems need is less obvious.

I have received quite vehemnet attacks on this forum for saying I don't know whether or not I could recieve benefit for not being able to hold down a normal job due to my health. I don't need it, so I have never investigated it. To other people the ''need'' might feel different as during at least part of this time DH was not a higher tax payer and we did not own a home....so....where is the line, should I have applied then? (need that shruggy smilie, I miss it.)

I have never received any kind of benefit other than the basic "family allowance" thing.

I have been in my time entitled to, unemployment benefit, family tax credit and help with rent when I lived in a doss house. I think I am probably entitled to some kind of reduction with my community tax and have been for years.

I think it is a p ikey thing. We don't cadge.

You keep yourself and you pay for your own. And if times get hard you go work in a chippie in the evenings or take a bliddy cleaning job. You do not stand with your hand out for money that you can either live without or can earn. Every penny that is handed over to people like me is a penny less for someone like SingleSue and her kids.

It is shameful to ask for it never mind take it.

It is equally shameful to erode the rights of people who do a fair days work. They have the right to resist that erosion and we have the duty to support them.

wageslave

ILW wrote: »

And whos great idea was that then?

Tonys likely.

Does it matter?

lostinrates

wageslave wrote: »

I have never received any kind of benefit other than the basic "family allowance" thing.

I have been in my time entitled to, unemployment benefit, family tax credit and help with rent when I lived in a doss house. I think I am probably entitled to some kind of reduction with my community tax and have been for years.

I think it is a p ikey thing. We don't cadge.

You keep yourself and you pay for your own. And if times get hard you go work in a chippie in the evenings or take a bliddy cleaning job. You do not stand with your hand out for money that you can either live without or can earn. Every penny that is handed over to people like me is a penny less for someone like SingleSue and her kids.

It is shameful to ask for it never mind take it.

It is equally shameful to erode the rights of people who do a fair days work. They have the right to resist that erosion and we have the duty to support them.

I don't think its a ''!!!!! thing'' I think its a moral thing, whoever thinks it. The more people who don't need take, as you say, is less for those that do. I do not think it shameful to take if you need it, nor to ask. but I would not feel comfortable or ''right'' taking when even at our lowest earing time we were ok (at one point I aniced when using my savings to pay or health, but not unlike ''your'' community a very kind man felt ''community'' towards me and helped me out...a lot).

edit: the exclamation marks were me trying to type what wageslave refer to herself as. WS, what is the preferred socially acceptable term to use please?

wageslave

lostinrates wrote: »

I don't think its a ''!!!!! thing'' I think its a moral thing, whoever thinks it. The more people who don't need take, as you say, is less for those that do. I do not think it shameful to take if you need it, nor to ask. but I would not feel comfortable or ''right'' taking when even at our lowest earing time we were ok (at one point I aniced when using my savings to pay or health, but not unlike ''your'' community a very kind man felt ''community'' towards me and helped me out...a lot).

We have gotten it all ar se to elbow in this country. I dont know or care where it all went wrong.

People constantly go on about those who never work while claiming every centine they are due themselves.

The underclass are traditionally heavy industry or factory workers. Those jobs are gone and what is left to replace them?

If we are not extremely careful what we are doing, we are going to push minimum wage workers the same way and we can't afford it.

We are broke, morally and financially bankrupt.

We won't be fixed by further burdening the PN's of this world.

We have to protect the less well off amongst us. It is what decent people do.

And hey ho we will have to sacrifice the second holiday in France to do it.

Sh it happens

thescouselander

Really the unions in the public sector are a waste of space. Last time there was a strike where I work it was pathetic. Take the picket line for instance, was there:

• Unshaven blokes wearing wooly beanie hats, florescent safety jackets and fingerless gloves
• said blokes standing round an oil drum containing a burning pallet
• signes saying "scabs out!"
• shouts of abuse and hurning of half bricks as I crossed the picket line

I can tell you - no there wasn't!

If you cant mount a decent picket line what hope is there - I wouldn't waste money on subs for that bunch of jokers. I'm sure the government are shaking in their boots.

wageslave

thescouselander wrote: »

Really the unions in the public sector are a waste of space. Last time there was a strike where I work it was pathetic. Take the picket line for instance, was there:

• Unshaven blokes wearing wooly beanie hats, florescent safety jackets and fingerless gloves
• said blokes standing round an oil drum containing a burning pallet
• signes saying "scabs out!"
• shouts of abuse and hurning of half bricks as I crossed the picket line

I can tell you - no there wasn't!

If you cant mount a decent picket line what hope is there - I wouldn't waste money on subs for that bunch of jokers. I'm sure the government are shaking in their boots.

Couldn't agree more. Beany hats are so not who we are.

But we need something, someone to represent us.

And if this thread has shown nothing else it has shown we cant rely on our "betters".

So where do the working class go from here?

If politicians can reinvent themselves perhaps it is time the unions did the same.

I'd start with all those above average earners claiming benefits

ILW

wageslave wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. Beany hats are so not who we are.

But we need something, someone to represent us.

And if this thread has shown nothing else it has shown we cant rely on our "betters".

So where do the working class go from here?

If politicians can reinvent themselves perhaps it is time the unions did the same.

I'd start with all those above average earners claiming benefits

It does appear that is something that this new government is hoping to address.

StevieJ

lostinrates wrote: »

I don't think its a ''!!!!! thing'' I think its a moral thing, whoever thinks it. The more people who don't need take, as you say, is less for those that do. I do not think it shameful to take if you need it, nor to ask. but I would not feel comfortable or ''right'' taking when even at our lowest earing time we were ok (at one point I aniced when using my savings to pay or health, but not unlike ''your'' community a very kind man felt ''community'' towards me and helped me out...a lot).

I would claim whatever was available, I just don't agree that it should be available if there is no need, e.g. pensioners living on the Costa-Del-Sol entitled to winter fuel allowance