Travel Agents Say MoneySaving Is Immoral!

peejay67

Just for the record, we charge 1% for credit cards. No charge for debits or switch. With regard to other people charging. Easy Jet, Ryan Air and BA all charge. If you book concert tickets you get charged horrendous booking fees. Go buy a car..youll get charged 3% credit card fee. Go into a newsagents and theyll only accept cards for purchases over a certain amount. Why? Because we as traders are charged by the credit card companies. Large companies can swallow their charges, smaller ones cant.

All these people posting on here just arguing for the sake of it and trying to extend the thread to a general moan about travel agents, I think i've met you all abroad...TRAVELMAN, I bet youve met them too..!

ComedyMartin

TRAVELMAN wrote:

Comedymartin....the thread (as Martin corrected earlier) is NOT a blanket thread for slating all aspects of Travel Agents-it's about buying the same package at different Agents at different costs.

The thread is not about QUOTE 'is all about travel agents ripping consumers off.'. I'm sure if you PM Martin he'll put you right on this.

The 2% is charged by a lot of the low-cost airlines & accom only companies.

I don't have the time to check each one but know it's about right. I've just done a booking on Thomas Cooks low cost flight site & the card fees were approx £4 pp-over 2%.

I suggest you use your obvious enthusiasm for being venemous to the industry & going on about card charges (not been mentioned once by anyone as not relavent to this thread) to publish a book maybe on the evils of the travel trade??!

Look at Budgetflyers reasoned post-this is how most level-headed people would reply.

Chris

Huh?.... have I hit a raw nerve.... or is there a personal agenda for not wanting the topic to touch on these fees? Why are you are so eager to avoid people talking about these fees?

It's generally accepted internet forum etiquette, that once a thread gets to page 7 or 8, it's original subject has been firmly established and that the topic of discussion matures and expands of it's own accord, according to the supply and demand of the participants. For example, if nobody wants to talk about the 2% credit card charges, then fine - no problem, my post will go unanswered - No harm done. On the other hand, if people DO want to discuss it, then there is obviously a demand, and the topic should be discussed. That is the whole nature of a healthy public forum. It's not really down to self-appointed moderators such as you to start dictating to people what they can and cannot post.

ComedyMartin

peejay67 wrote:

Just for the record, we charge 1% for credit cards.

1% is a whole lot better than 2%, and is closer to the actual amount of the merchant fees.

peejay67 wrote:

No charge for debits or switch. With regard to other people charging. Easy Jet, Ryan Air and BA all charge.

Suprised (but not disputing you) about BA. Not suprised about Sleazy or Ryan...

peejay67 wrote:

If you book concert tickets you get charged horrendous booking fees. Go buy a car..youll get charged 3% credit card fee.

You might be right about concert tickets, but you're wrong about cars. Admittedly dealers usually impose a 2k limit on the amount you can pay by car, but I've bought several new cars from dealers and never had to pay a surcharge.

peejay67 wrote:

Go into a newsagents and theyll only accept cards for purchases over a certain amount.

Fair enough, but that is completely different from charging a surcharge. how would you feel if they added 2% onto the cost?

peejay67 wrote:

Why? Because we as traders are charged by the credit card companies. Large companies can swallow their charges, smaller ones cant.

So where is the difference between charging for merchant fees and for say the printing costs for the brochures that a customer takes? both are operating costs. Take it to the next level, why not charge a "electricity" surcharge to cover the travel agents electricity bill?

peejay67 wrote:

All these people posting on here just arguing for the sake of it and trying to extend the thread to a general moan about travel agents,

I assure you, that's not my agenda! However, if that many people are trying to "have a general moan about travel agents", then doesn't that tell you something about how people feel about travel agents? Asked yourself why?

peejay67 wrote:

I think i've met you all abroad...TRAVELMAN, I bet youve met them too..!

Was that you in the red bikini ? ;-)

lipidicman

ben500 wrote:

And in defence of the tour operators may I just add a few words of my own.

Don't forget tour guides, hotel/resort staff, airline staff, holiday rep's etc are among the highest paid personel in the world.

Also what about all those hote/resort destinations that are given no ceiling expense accounts to ensure your holiday is not only safe but enjoyable, allowing hotels and resorts to constantly update equipment and train staff to the highest levels possible.

What about the overly generous contracts given to tour destinations to ensure a high standard on arrival.

What about all the programmes set in place for the local community for off season bleak periods of high unemployment.

And come on after all its not like any of us need our money is it? it's plain to see the tour operators do and we should do everything we can to see to it that Martins evil deeds are not repeated.

Just how many of you out there actually know that Thompson Holidays is actually owned by a seventy two year old widow currently residing in a nursing home in Clacton and that the annual profits actually fall short by an amount of £1.62 of the required amount to pay for her annual care, her only option to avoid registering for state benefits was to set up a tour company and you would all see her in a bedsit in Manchester if you had your way!

Its about time this site diverted its attention to where its really needed! I saw one bloke in Tesco the other day actually weighing up two avocado's to see which was heavier before buying! What does he suppose Tesco are going to do with all the little avocado's then?

I'm disgusted with all of you.

That was pretty funny, at the start I thought he's a bit zealous...then....hang on!

Back in the knife drawer, mr sharp!

bs7

GDEvans wrote:

Travelbag - they were excellent

[...]

But they were also very honest with me. They allocated a rep that I spoke to every time I called. Although I bought the flights from Travelbag, she knew that I was shopping around for various aspects of the holiday. When looking for hotels in various places, sometimes my prices were better, sometimes their prices were better. When I found the cheaper price I was advised to book it.

I think you were very lucky and i'm sure the amount of money you were spending attracted them to spend a little more time with you and being so helpful.

As the earlier posts point out some of these companies (i know that TravelBag/ebookers do) use foreign call centres. When booking with them i could just about manage to make out enough to place the booking. But when it came to complaining about some problems they're English wasn't quite as good as it was before and getting through to the allocated member of staff not as easy.

peejay67 wrote:

All these people posting on here just arguing for the sake of it and trying to extend the thread to a general moan about travel agents, I think i've met you all abroad...TRAVELMAN, I bet youve met them too..!

I don't think anyone is arguing for the sake of it. And as ComedyMartin says you seem to see yourself as a self-appointed moderator. Whilst we might be posting "for the sake of it" - you're posting for your own private benefit since you even tout for business on this forum. I don't know why you're so keen to keep people from airing their genuine grievances with the Travel Industry - perhaps if more Travel Agents listened and took note things would be improved rather than ignoring and trying to belittle the consumer.

peejay67

bs7 wrote:

I don't think anyone is arguing for the sake of it. And as ComedyMartin says you seem to see yourself as a self-appointed moderator. Whilst we might be posting "for the sake of it" - you're posting for your own private benefit since you even tout for business on this forum. I don't know why you're so keen to keep people from airing their genuine grievances with the Travel Industry - perhaps if more Travel Agents listened and took note things would be improved rather than ignoring and trying to belittle the consumer.

Just for the record, ComedyMartin was talking to TRAVELMAN. I do not tout for business, if you look at my replies I help people out with advice on this forum. If people want to book holidays with me, Travelman or whoever it is totally up to them. I have no problem with people airing their genuine grievances with the travel industry, however most of them on here are generalisations and do not apply across the board. Just read my previous posts. I never belittle anyone of my customers, even those who want to come in and book daytrips to dover which I make £1.50 on. At the end of the day a customer is a customer. There is no better advertising than word of mouth, and if I belittle anyone or give bad service I dont get repeat clients.

I think we're just going round in circles here. Theres no way Travelman, myself or any other travel agent will placate you or make you understand the intricacies of the travel industry, so its bes we go back to doing what we do best. Serve genuine members of the public who want to travel and who want the best deal from us.

PJ

P.S What does the BS stand for in your name?? Very apt!

TRAVELMAN_2

Oh dear....now now girls ((!!))

Just a quick point re :'touting for business'. I've posted to both Martin & the mods in the past BEFORE posting to make sure no rules are broken.

BS-Free market-sure you'll agree. If MSE'RS WANT TO pm/post for help that's up to them. If we give crap service/prices are rubbish-they vote with their feet. End of.

BS-it seems by your tone that you really have something against this Industry. Let me see....failing to pull on your 1st lads holiday ??!! That always makes us old un's (!!) bitter & twisted in later life ...(only messing!)

Chris

wendy04

oh what a surprise 'moneysavers' dont find haggling immoral .. the truth is that in my experience people here aim to in many cases knowingly exploit mistakes, or flaws in the online shoping system that a company might rely upon. they may use vouchers and money off codes that they are not entitled to. they then expect to receive the goods or services for that erroneous price.

well i would like everything to be free or cut price, who wouldnt?

haggling can be immoral though not always. what many people do not want to accept, because greed is a prime motivator here, is that they are accountable and do have a responsibility to act within reason. to not turn that haggle into something more threatening or as a right to receive goods at a self determined value because they demand it.

the truth is i we do not take into account the nature of the business we are busy exploiting , we do not factor into our prices for their costs and of course their profits without which they would not exist. in the main i have seen little care for the business that might be driven out of the market because of a genuine mistake on their part.

moneysaving should be about genuine offers, that offer a better value compared to the rest of the market ..and by sheer public demand of that service the competition is forced to lower their prices for their product or services.

i am not aware of any such thing happening here as a result of any article or post on these boards.

what we do have is many active contributors who find in one way or another of a 'loophole' or some marketing errror. so the benefits are time limited and or dependent upon the product stock levels.

this site has little to do with rip off britain in the real sense, where people are forcing major brands to meet customer demands for better value.

our supermarkets still profit at 10% whereas usa stores work on 3% net levels. this site has not changed that nor are the supermarkets under any pressure.

i think we are kidding ourselves if we think that this is about moneysaving in its real sense.

as for travel agents , our haggling does not make them cheaper, our not buying their holidays makes them cheaper. haggling just places them under possibly more threats and unruly behaviour. our choosing to seek out the companies that provide more value for each pound and investing our money into their services is what makes the markets change.

ryan air and easy jet are driven by the fact that they know they need to compete on price if they want our business, haggling with both just wont make them reduce their prices. why should it?

the travel business does have a point that we should consider instead of patting ourselves on our backs and believe that anyone here is providing something different in principle to the peer 2 peer filesharing corps that give access to free music.

if running a business is so easy why arent we all offering these fantastic deals with our very own businesses ?

bs7

peejay67 wrote:

P.S What does the BS stand for in your name?? Very apt!

That's what it stands for!
BUT that is exactly the snide that i'm sure anyone that's been reading this thread would expect from you. Whilst people are trying to have their say and getting their point accross you are unwilling to let anyone else say anything you disagree with and seem to throw a little tantrum when anyone argues with you. Whilst others are trying to be polite, you seem to be lacking this quality - perhaps this is simply a symptom of the industry in which you work.

Furthermore, i said belittle consumers not customers! I'm sure i won't be the only one that has picked up a tone of superiority and your posts being particularly condescending.


@ Travelman - the Travel Industry is just another in the UK that's got away with so much for so long that they can't even see the faults. My problem is actually their completely daft complaints about Martin's advice. All my points and posts have been to this end. The industry has no right to complain: i realise your point (and peejay67's) is that not all Travel Agents should be 'painted with the same brush' BUT that does not change the fact that everyone and anyone should be free to make their point and share their experiences without having their point simply dismissed as being a "general moan about travel agents" or not being "level-headed". If the criticisms of the industry don't apply to Independent Travel Agents then by all means please inform us of the difference but don't simply dismiss anyone's point without so much as a second thought because you disagree.

wendy04 wrote:

as for travel agents , our haggling does not make them cheaper, our not buying their holidays makes them cheaper. haggling just places them under possibly more threats and unruly behaviour. our choosing to seek out the companies that provide more value for each pound and investing our money into their services is what makes the markets change.

ryan air and easy jet are driven by the fact that they know they need to compete on price if they want our business, haggling with both just wont make them reduce their prices. why should it?

the travel business does have a point that we should consider instead of patting ourselves on our backs and believe that anyone here is providing something different in principle to the peer 2 peer filesharing corps that give access to free music.

So you're advocating paying the broucher price every time?! That's just plain daft. The new car example is a good one to compare it to - if you go to purchase a new car most dealers have some discretion to haggle a little, whether it's a set of mats for the car and a full tank of few or a few extras installed: it's expected by some dealers. It is likewise for some Travel Agents (although not all - however my post earlier did say that customers expected discounts).

The larger companies do actively price discriminate (someone posted earlier about the same firm selling the same package at a different price on a different site it owned) - that is questionable morally (although not economically). Finding the cheapest price by shopping around is prudent and will force companies to be more competitive in the longer run BUT if you haggle you then give the firms are better chance of being able to take your business by providing the most competitive quote.

I'm not sure what Travelman or peejay67 would say but i can't see them having any real objections to someone simply asking whether they can beat a price for a holiday that a customer has received from another company. It gives them a chance to undercut the other agent (even if it was merely throwing in the in-flight meals for free or something). I don't see how it can be compared to P2P - the ideal would be to make it like a reverse-auction more than anything else. What the 'haggler' is effectively doing is saying that he wants to go to X for Y days - who can do the best price. I can't see how anyone can have any real objection to that on any grounds (if i understand correctly even Travelman and peejay67 conceed this - their main point, however, is that holiday A offered by one firm may not be exactly the same as holiday B, and other factors need to be considered).

peejay67

bs7 wrote:

That's what it stands for!
BUT that is exactly the snide that i'm sure anyone that's been reading this thread would expect from you. Whilst people are trying to have their say and getting their point accross you are unwilling to let anyone else say anything you disagree with and seem to throw a little tantrum when anyone argues with you. Whilst others are trying to be polite, you seem to be lacking this quality - perhaps this is simply a symptom of the industry in which you work.

1) How can it be snide if thats what it means??

2) I have merely answered arguments and put my views across intelligently and informatively.

3) I have never "thrown a little tantrum". Firstly Im not that kind of person, and secondly Im far too busy too worry about what people say if they are not being objective or accurate.

4) Would like instances where I have come across as being impolite on this thread.

5) Once again I refer you to my previous posts. To my customers I am polite, courteous, helpful and considerate. I am firmly of the belief that people earn respect and politeness.

Take a look around you bs7..youre obviously missing something.

As I said in my previous post. I think we are going round in circles, totally straying from the thread title..which incidentally is a poll surely questioning travel agents???

I'll get back to what I do best...finding holidays for people at competitive prices.

Goodnight Vienna...nurse..please bring my tablets

PJ