Travel Agents Say MoneySaving Is Immoral!

TRAVELMAN_2

pee-jay-do you subscribe to the Agents 'special' medicine???! Clue....it's golden in colour, is made in Scotland & ain't half nice at 8pm!!

Chris

budgetflyer

wendy04 wrote:

oh what a surprise 'moneysavers' dont find haggling immoral .. the truth is that in my experience people here aim to in many cases knowingly exploit mistakes, or flaws in the online shoping system that a company might rely upon. they may use vouchers and money off codes that they are not entitled to. they then expect to receive the goods or services for that erroneous price.

well i would like everything to be free or cut price, who wouldnt?

haggling can be immoral though not always. what many people do not want to accept, because greed is a prime motivator here, is that they are accountable and do have a responsibility to act within reason. to not turn that haggle into something more threatening or as a right to receive goods at a self determined value because they demand it.

the truth is i we do not take into account the nature of the business we are busy exploiting , we do not factor into our prices for their costs and of course their profits without which they would not exist. in the main i have seen little care for the business that might be driven out of the market because of a genuine mistake on their part.

moneysaving should be about genuine offers, that offer a better value compared to the rest of the market ..and by sheer public demand of that service the competition is forced to lower their prices for their product or services.

i am not aware of any such thing happening here as a result of any article or post on these boards.

what we do have is many active contributors who find in one way or another of a 'loophole' or some marketing errror. so the benefits are time limited and or dependent upon the product stock levels.

this site has little to do with rip off britain in the real sense, where people are forcing major brands to meet customer demands for better value.

our supermarkets still profit at 10% whereas usa stores work on 3% net levels. this site has not changed that nor are the supermarkets under any pressure.

i think we are kidding ourselves if we think that this is about moneysaving in its real sense.

as for travel agents , our haggling does not make them cheaper, our not buying their holidays makes them cheaper. haggling just places them under possibly more threats and unruly behaviour. our choosing to seek out the companies that provide more value for each pound and investing our money into their services is what makes the markets change.

ryan air and easy jet are driven by the fact that they know they need to compete on price if they want our business, haggling with both just wont make them reduce their prices. why should it?

the travel business does have a point that we should consider instead of patting ourselves on our backs and believe that anyone here is providing something different in principle to the peer 2 peer filesharing corps that give access to free music.

if running a business is so easy why arent we all offering these fantastic deals with our very own businesses ?

I really cant agree with any of the above quoted.I would love to be a double glazing salesman knocking on your door :-)
The big chains ARE responding to changing buying habits.Nobody forces any of these companies to sell holidays after a bit of haggling. There is always a bottom line. They will only go below it if they can rake it back elsewhere.

mitre

I disagree.
wendy04's argument is one of the best, well thought out agruments I have seen on this board.
Many on this board only care about the latest deeply discounted/misprice offers and have no consideration about how thes have arisen or about revisiting the companies offering them. How often have I seen " I buy nothing at full price"
Eventually there will be no jobs left in this country if even it's residents don't shop here.

tomek_2

Supporting you all the way Martin.
What we are in effect asking for, is for the travel agent / tour operator to match the price from somewhere else. There's nothing wrong with that. Most people regularly do just that when buying goods in the shops or over the internet.
At no point is the buyer or the seller forced to accept the offer.
And if the holidays weren't artificially overpriced in high season (read as school holidays) and single people or single parents forced to pay under occupancy fees then we would all be much happier going to the travel agent and trusting them to find us the best deal possible.

The only thing worth remembering though (as mentioned earlier) is that it is sometimes worth paying a litttle bit more to get your holidays from a company that is ATOL protected.

TRAVELMAN_2

Atol bookings if tailor-made in most cases ARE CHEAPER as Hotel rates given beat 95% of web prices.

Re: comment on Peak Season & single parents-it's the Hoteliers who up the prices & also the Hoteliers who ONLY give discounts if kids are with 2 full paying adults. Example-3* all-inclusove in may per night 26 euros pp, SAME Hotel 25/7-49 euros! So it's the Hotel/Apartment owners that account for a lot of the higher prices in Peak Season. I'm not saying Tour Op's are blameless (Whitsun/School Half-Terms being prime examples when Hotel rates cheap-flight prices sky high!) but in PEAK season the above explains it.

Chris

almond

well martin has made the ttg again and I think the story will run and run,
I am stick of people wanting me to price match- what the point if they
can get it for that price is the first place why not book it? Its time us
travel agents stick up for ourselves, its not us that are making a fortune
out of the public its the "OPERATOR" that is ripping us both off,
my daughter wanted a holiday to italy in the summer holidays (teacher)
and to cut a long story short we found one with panaroma and the best
laugh is it was £35pp cheaper for her to do it on the internet than for
me to do the booking at nett. We have always found its cheaper on the
internet with any operator, but since she gets the holiday at nett from
me (your would'nt want to make money from your kids) I have managed
to save her a few pounds. Its fine booking on the internet and why should
customers have to pay extra to use a travel agent, why should operators
keep they call centres in the uk! since we all know virgins indian call centre
is the best !!!!!! ha ha
What we need to do is get the operators to give us the same prices as the
internet- they will say they is no overheads for booking on the internet
and they are saving travel agents comm. Well panorama were giving 20%
off on the net and we only get 14%. I have ran out of space so will finish by saying I have been in travel for twenty + years and its now time to move on,
I love my job and don't make a fortune. To the public - please be nice to us we are only here to help you.

judge_2

Might I make my virgin post here in commending Weny04's post on this thread which reinforced my own difficulties with aspects of MSE's practices.

There is some valuable work and a fantastic network of research both here and through Martin's own efforts. In our home we have made some fantastic savings based on knowledge imparted here and we are grateful for it, but there are some elements where I cringe at the practices used, which Wendy mentions in her post.

I can't easily seperate the genuine research where operators are compared bang for buck and consumers can readily see where savings can be made and the overrinding attitude that permeates about here on 'getting one over' which leads to the loophole discoveries, picking up on errors only to find these offers are gobbled up and recipient of the saving then turn coat and becomes the exploiters, i.e. reports of "I bought 6 and put five on eBay...".

I watched the TWTM show, the best bit was the information on forms of currency and how best to get value from foreign travel. The travel agent element also pleased me in that the right TA was found who proved by the end to have offered the best value and service. The advice given to take that service and advice from the first TA and exploit them by going elsewhere was for me the side to all this MSE I struggle with.

It didn't work in this instance and I'm pleased it didn't, the first Travel Agent provided good service and were good value for their efforts, for me that should be rewarded and never overlooked on how much satisfaction that is worth and it won't always be measured in £'s, so they might have saved a £ or two in another instance but to what end?

nearlyrich

I agree with the comments about Travelbag, you speak to someone who has been to the area you are planning to go to, they can suggest things to see and do. Like GDEvans they helped us plan our last 2 long haul trips and their knowledge of the area was very useful. They also arranged flights for a lot less than I could find on any of the internet sites, and at convenient times for us. We shopped around even picked up a couple of brochures in the likes of Lunn Poly and their prices were at least 50% higher than a tailor-made holiday for a set package in lower quality hotels and mass transfers.

wendy05

bs7 wrote:

That's what it stands for!
So you're advocating paying the broucher price every time?! That's just plain daft. The new car example is a good one to compare it to - if you go to purchase a new car most dealers have some discretion to haggle a little, whether it's a set of mats for the car and a full tank of few or a few extras installed: it's expected by some dealers. It is likewise for some Travel Agents (although not all - however my post earlier did say that customers expected discounts).

no that is not what im saying. im saying to haggle we should recognise that we have responsibilities too. it is not just a one way street.

The larger companies do actively price discriminate (someone posted earlier about the same firm selling the same package at a different price on a different site it owned) - that is questionable morally (although not economically).

its not immoral it is doing its marketing and meeting the aspirations of its customers , just as some will buy into a designer label and pay £90 jean that could be bought at asda for £4 . the onus is on us to be savvy enough to recognise tha value of the goods being sold and not to be blinded by the marketing.

you have the right to walk away from any purchase.

Finding the cheapest price by shopping around is prudent and will force companies to be more competitive in the longer run BUT if you haggle you then give the firms are better chance of being able to take your business by providing the most competitive quote.

it is long terms gains that are the ones to savour, however what happens if all travel agens t now agree to a policy of no haggele .. what are your options but to find the cheapest price.

all you will find if haggling becomes the norm is that the prices become artificial in all senses, there is no value except the value the seller makes. the value is what you perceive to be a bargain, even though at a fixed rate you might have been paying 30% less.

haggling has its dangers too for the consumer , it is not all in the customers favour as many here believe.

I'm not sure what Travelman or peejay67 would say but i can't see them having any real objections to someone simply asking whether they can beat a price for a holiday that a customer has received from another company.

it is the manner and reasonableness of the haggling i think that is in question, and of course with trvel holidays we do have to ensure that that the product is exactly the same one in all aspects.

It gives them a chance to undercut the other agent (even if it was merely throwing in the in-flight meals for free or something). I don't see how it can be compared to P2P - the ideal would be to make it like a reverse-auction more than anything else. What the 'haggler' is effectively doing is saying that he wants to go to X for Y days - who can do the best price. I can't see how anyone can have any real objection to that on any grounds (if i understand correctly even Travelman and peejay67 conceed this - their main point, however, is that holiday A offered by one firm may not be exactly the same as holiday B, and other factors need to be considered).

you may believe that haggling is the way to go or reverse auctions etc .. these are in effect if you or anyone else care to have a long think about are in the end to the retailers benefit , and possibly more profitable... because we all have a different idea of what is 'value'.

the p2p example is the mentality that people have .

wendy05

budgetflyer wrote:

I really cant agree with any of the above quoted.I would love to be a double glazing salesman knocking on your door :-)
The big chains ARE responding to changing buying habits.Nobody forces any of these companies to sell holidays after a bit of haggling. There is always a bottom line. They will only go below it if they can rake it back elsewhere.

when you haggle what are the considerations you are making? how do you make value judgements?

what happens when there are no fixed prices to base your value judgements on?

now do you want to visit/call all of the travel agents to discover the best price they will offer since the pricing will mean nothing without that visit or would you look at what is being offered as a fixed price and determining that the value lies with one or another company that might also provide a benefit with some gentle negotiations?

i think we do have to recognise that this idea of haggling can also work against the consumer .. and one has to be very wary of practices, products in all regards before one can determine a value.